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Author Topic: Gang Garrison 2.6.2  (Read 8586 times)

Teekytots [PC][OG]

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2013, 11:49:36 pm »

its not good simply because its a 2d game
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Machidro

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2013, 11:57:32 pm »

its not good simply because its a 2d game

Bodyblocking for all classes is an issue for some classes, definitely. Scout and pyro get nerfed really hard by not being able to dance their targets.

But for all of the reasons in that list, at very least spy bodyblocking is actually a great addition to the game.
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Phantom Brave

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2013, 12:04:22 am »

what if their target is a spy
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http://steamcommunity.com/id/wareya/
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Intel Guard

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2013, 12:21:37 am »

what if their target is a spy
ding ding ding
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Machidro

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2013, 12:25:50 am »

I'd say spy blocking benefits outweigh in those cases for reasons listed.

Remember that if it was only the spy with the ability, scout on spy and pyro on spy changes wouldn't really be an issue; the two would play roughly the same as they did before. It's only really a notable problem if scout or pyro has to change his entire play style for all combat, players are pretty good at small adjustments.

Also, while we're spitballing, we should have a justification for the mechanic. I'd just treat it like another spy passive ability. We could call it impermeability or something along those lines. The update poster could be a picture of the medic with his face cartoonishly smashed against the white dotted outline of a spy ala Wile. E Coyote tunnel impact.
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drmalpractice

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2013, 01:23:24 am »

As you know, here at Faucet Software we pride ourselves in releasing high-quality, bug-free software.

-- Andrea Faulds
Senior Vice President of Customer Relations, Faucet Software

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Dokurider

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2013, 01:38:12 am »

Get Two Quotes
Gangbang enemies like it was A Night At The Roxbury.
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Lord SecretMan

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2013, 02:30:22 am »

Imagine bodyblock in Cave Story.



Can't you just add bodyblock on or off? Just in the future if you want fun with it with others.
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Orpheon

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2013, 03:49:05 am »

I don't care about other classes, but leave spy bodyblocking in permanently, it's fucking awesome.

Things spies can now do which are awesome:

-On maps with ledges, edgeguard. A well positioned spy has a new way of killing unaware players.

-Two spies can perform a real pincer attack. One spy comes from an enemies right, the other from his left. They sandwich him, one shoots at him to keep him distracted, and the other stabs for the kill. This is an excellent teamwork incentive and makes the stereotypical crowd of failspies actually more effective in their numbers.

-Dropstabs got nerfed in a good way, since they're now objectively harder.

-Facestabs got buffed in a good way, since now it's really disorientating to hit a spy and you can trick overzealous players into being stuck in your stab. One may also pin players against objects like crates with perfect precision timing

-Spies now have an extra function: detect other hidden spies. When two invisible spies collide (something a spy can't otherwise prepare for), a pistol duel ensues immediately deciding which one survives. This is invariably awesome, seems like a reasonable replacement game ability for the now nerfed quote bubble, and makes for some nice spy vs. spy.

-Standing still and being a campspy got nerfed- if another spy touches you while you're standing still, they'll know you're camping but you won't know they touched you, making you an easy target.

-You have to be more careful how you travel, and you can't just derp into a crowd, m2, m1. You must plan your actions.

Basically, it massively buffs the spy's potential skill ceiling, and it really adds a lot to the game. Make this shit permanent.

man I haven't even played the latest patch yet but all of this sounds awesome
now I gotta try it
Same. I might make a build of it later when I go on windows.
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bullets (obviously)

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2013, 04:16:21 am »

Imagine bodyblock in Cave Story.
Can't you just add bodyblock on or off? Just in the future if you want fun with it with others.
Bodyblocking so bad that Secretman's making coherent posts. Holy shit.

But yeah, it would be great if we had a "normal" 2.6.3, since everyone's addicted to gg2, etc. Pls leave bodyblocking as an ini option.
Also, guides and maps are getting outdated left and right thanks to untested changes being dumped in every new release.
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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2013, 07:45:48 am »

I hate body blocking. Now noob spies and such can just stab you by getting in front of you. They don't have to time their stab anymore. They just stand in from of you and press m1. Especially if you have lag, a spy can destroy you. I used to take care of spies who stabbed off time by running through them and then turning around and then shooting them, but it doesn't work now.
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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2013, 08:53:38 am »

I dunno if I run into some invisible spy as like Runner why would I even need to dance him, I can just meatshot him like before and he's basically dead before he gets maybe one revolver shot in.

That's ignoring that I'd probably be spychecking in the first place.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 08:54:12 am by [Royal Gay Penguin Nachos Ibarra Gordita Agave] LC »
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Burtal

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2013, 09:38:15 am »

it's fucking stupid end of

Hanako Ikezawa

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2013, 03:43:28 pm »

Well...I read the thread yesterday and suddenly there's a lot of activity going on now. Sweet.
Interesting (buggy) update this time, I think I prefer this method more than the rigourous testing; there's something to be said for watching all the hilarious glitching. It seems very time intensive for the devs though.

On the topic of bodyblocking for spies, I find it to be an interesting idea. From what I gather from machidro's post, spies should be able to bodyblock only while cloaked (only the enemy team is blocked, right?). Against a visible spy, there would be no blocking.

This does add a higher skill ceiling to the game, as Machidro has pointed out. May main worry is that giving more passive abilities to the spy may cause complexity problems (i.e. "I can't block while visible, but I can while I'm invisible" versus passive invisibility's "I'm always invisible as long as they don't look at me"). This would be four abilities (passive invisibility, cloak, multistab and bodyblocking) and two weapons (the clip-reloading revolver and knife) for the spy. Of course, complexity isn't always a bad thing.

I find cloakblocking to be very interesting. If you're having trouble imagining it, try thinking that someone would run around a visible enemy (we walk around people all the time IRL). Since one can't see the invisible spy, he would crash into him (I know, the analogy falls apart when you realize the spy can see the other guy).

A scout or pyro running into a cloaked spy shouldn't be a big problem, while they can't dance, a scout still has a good opportunity at meatshots (no running past the mark). If the spy decides to stab, the scout will see the spy (he's not dancing, just facing the spy) and if the spy drops cloak, bodyblocking isn't a problem. For the pyro, straight up direct burning seems to be the answer, a pyro is fearsome at close combat. The fact that spies can act as a wall means that he can be "passed" to teammates for the kill, encouraging airblasting. As a bonus to our nerfed pyro, spies now have a harder time getting into his blindspot for free shots. Sure, introducing teammates may tip the scales, but that happens in every matchup.

Players adapted to passive invisibility in GG2 and disguises in TF2, it shouldn't be too hard to adapt to bodyblocking as well. It may seem OP at first, but once it simmers, it should be fairly straightforward.

Overall, I say we at least test it. If it's added, great; if not, we can say we did it and tell everyone why it's a bad idea. It's been a while since I checked the git; since the code is already written, it shouldn't be very labour intensive, right? It would be rather cool if we actually got bodyblocking to work in a 2D game.

TL;DR sorry about the long post. Pyro and scout should be fine, be careful of overcomplexity, Machidro makes good points, bodyblocking makes sense, and people will adapt. Let's test it!

MedO

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Re: Gang Garrison 2.6.2
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2013, 03:59:15 pm »

Well, let's end the fun and get out a proper bugfix now. Bodyblocking as a feature can be considered of course, but I don't think we'll iterate that idea in public releases. Plugins are probably the best place for it right now. In the meantime, we'll get back to a vanially GG2 without bodyblocking.

So how did this even get back in? It's a fun little mistake that I actually already explained above, but I don't think anyone in their right minds could have understood what I posted there. So here it is in plain english (I hope).
Obviously we wanted to revert the collision system changes that we introduced in 2.6.0. To do that, I basically told git (the tool that keeps track of all our work) to undo everything wareya has worked on when he was writing the collision system changes.
However, wareya started on those changes in Version 2.5, which still had the bodyblocking, and he removed the bodyblocking when writing the collision system. Meanwhile, we *independendly* removed bodyblocking for our next release. When we merged wareya's work into our main development branch, git saw that the same change had happened on both sides and everything was fine. However, when I told git to revert wareya's changes, it also added bodyblocking again, because wareya had removed that.
The correct thing to do was to tell git to revert the merge itself. That way, it can notice that bodyblocking wasn't actually removed by adding wareya's stuff, because it had already been removed before.

I hope that was mildly interesting to you. See you after the 2.6.3 release. :)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 04:01:16 pm by MedO »
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