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Author Topic: INSmod | Version 1.28.2 ex | New update for the Holidays  (Read 360605 times)

Killah Zillah

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #450 on: August 16, 2011, 05:47:26 pm »

It's fair for Rebel to ask for some more detailed feedback, and I'm actually sorry I haven't given it.. Here I am wishing people would review my own mod in greater detail with me, and I'm not doing it for a mod that's way better than my own!

After playing against/with almost all the classes, I've found that they fit well together, all except Iji, who's laser cannon thing can go through walls. I find that OP to the point that it's just not fun to play against. An example of an OP class with similar properties that's fun to play against would be the Sorceress, who can warp in behind me and kill me pretty quickly. It's annoying, it's OP, but as you said Rebel, that level of OP actually makes the class more fun to play and play against. It's challenging and annoying just enough that it falls into that fun kind of challenge, the kind that mixes up the gameplay and keeps things fresh and unexpected.

As for Iji, the blast goes through spawn doors, and it's way way WAY too powerful. It's OP to the point that it's just unfair, at least with its ability to go through solid objects. It doesn't look like it's supposed to do that, so it also gives off the IMPRESSION of OP'ness, as well as actually being OP. We can imagine and expect where a sorceress will go, and that gives us the impression that she's JUST OP enough to be fun, while also being very beatable with good timing. Iji's laser looks like it should stop against solid walls, which makes you feel like she's very unfair. At certain points in most maps, that ability to shoot through solid rock makes the class - at least FEEL - extremely unfair. Certain maps make many of the classes completely trapped against it, where no amount of skill can save you from it. It gives this very unfun feel to the character's cannon.

To summarize, with her ability to shoot through spawn doors, and her ability to shoot through 5 inches of solid wall, it doesn't make playing against her FUN.. I'd suggest keeping the damage it does - it's fun to just BARELY make the jump over it before delivering our deathblow - but stunt her ability to shoot through solid wall, or even remove it altogether. It's just not fun to just get zapped in the spawn room or through an area we absolutely cannot dodge it from, such as in the corridor on 2Dfort next to the box on the bridge, or in the tunnel next to the intel on the same map. It gives the impression the class is unfair, and ruins any chance for most people to actually enjoy playing against her.

Er... also.. have you given my animation a try? If you liked it, I would like to make a alernate Techno Viking animation too!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 05:55:11 pm by [PHS] Killah Zillah »
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Dronery

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #451 on: August 16, 2011, 06:42:37 pm »

Iji Balance?
Buff shotgun and reflector to balance a Plasma Cannon nerf?
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RebelINS

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #452 on: August 16, 2011, 06:48:52 pm »

The plasma cannon doesn't actually do any damage to players inside the spawn room. Test it for yourself.

dAn

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #453 on: August 16, 2011, 06:49:21 pm »

Ok people, Stop misusing the word 'overpowered' and how it affects gameplay!
There is a difference between an overpowered power/weapon/ability and an overpowered class, Rebel  says having overpowered stuff is good unless it hurts gameplay... OP classes do always hurt gameplay but OP abilities/weapons don't. Also something isn't overpowered if it is OP only in certain scenarios. Point in case: Minigun in TF2 is undeniable OP,but only at close range. And is the class(OP)? no(For the most part).

One important thing to consider when talking about game balance: OP vs. 'Skill'...
ALOT of times when people complain about something being OP, it's usually because their enemy was making good use of a fair tactic and the person isn't generally that great, or at least at countering said tactic. And when people rage they don't play smart and progressively get worst and delude themselves about balance, of weapons and abilities, in a way that helps their case... i.e "M0J0 Iz for noobs, MechA is OP!". The best way to avoid this is by look through every possible point of views (Playing each class) in an argument
Now I would be a Hypocrite if I said I don't do the things written above but people should actually consider the points I made.

Also Rebel are you considering my older(and new) suggestions? i.e:
1.Chryssalid shouldn't stop recharging sprint meter during attack or in sprint stance, but not moving.
2.Vault Boy only switches loadout if dieing from an enemy and not from switching class or from environmental hazards.
New:
3.Saniman shouldn't have gravity switch but can still walk on walls, because that gives him alot of unneeded mobility(by falling side ways) especially when he can cloak and while he is carrying the intel
4.Iji's lazer probably shouldn't go through spawn doors...

Also, When you die from an autogun of sorts, the killcam shows the builder and not the autogun.
Isn't this a problem with GG2 itself?

If it is and rebs solves it, he'll be whined at to bring it into GG2...
Wow, I actually managed to mix up GG2 with TF2... thanks for pointing that out
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Killah Zillah

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #454 on: August 16, 2011, 06:52:40 pm »

The plasma cannon doesn't actually do any damage to players inside the spawn room. Test it for yourself.

Well.. that's one part of my arguement beaten, but the rest still stands on its own, and the fact it DOES shoot through the spawn door still gives it the feeling that it's unfair.

RebelINS

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #455 on: August 16, 2011, 07:15:05 pm »

I think you're over-exaggerating Iji's strengths relative to the rest of the classes. Most Iji's that I've seen play so far suck really bad with the reflector and shotgun, only scoring hits with the plasma cannon, which only further undermines the amount of skill she requires to play correctly when that does happen to kill.

She can only shoot in two directions with the Shotgun and Plasma Cannon. It really isn't that farfetched to give her an ability that puts her in a position of strength compared to every other class (mid-range, with terrain blocking enemy's fire), considering every other class has the advantage when fighting her at any angle other than straight ahead. Only Bo Jackson, and Drool Warrior on Blu have very disadvantageous matchups. E. Honda can out match her DPS up close and get in close with headbutts (which makes it a wash imo). Saniman vs Iji depends on who gets the first strike. Every other Blu class has ways around her frontal attacks.

The whole point of Iji is to use the Plasma Cannon to trap opponents into inescapable situations when paired up with the shotgun. However, doing this requires you use all of her weapons well. There are tons of ways to beat Iji players that only abuse the Plasma Cannon.

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #456 on: August 16, 2011, 07:17:55 pm »

Anyone up for some games? I can host
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Starky

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #457 on: August 16, 2011, 07:32:30 pm »

Oooh, I'm game.
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Killah Zillah

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #458 on: August 16, 2011, 07:34:22 pm »

I think you're over-exaggerating Iji's strengths relative to the rest of the classes. Most Iji's that I've seen play so far suck really bad with the reflector and shotgun, only scoring hits with the plasma cannon, which only further undermines the amount of skill she requires to play correctly when that does happen to kill.

She can only shoot in two directions with the Shotgun and Plasma Cannon. It really isn't that farfetched to give her an ability that puts her in a position of strength compared to every other class (mid-range, with terrain blocking enemy's fire), considering every other class has the advantage when fighting her at any angle other than straight ahead. Only Bo Jackson, and Drool Warrior on Blu have very disadvantageous matchups. E. Honda can out match her DPS up close and get in close with headbutts (which makes it a wash imo). Saniman vs Iji depends on who gets the first strike. Every other Blu class has ways around her frontal attacks.

The whole point of Iji is to use the Plasma Cannon to trap opponents into inescapable situations when paired up with the shotgun. However, doing this requires you use all of her weapons well. There are tons of ways to beat Iji players that only abuse the Plasma Cannon.

I already understood why Iji has it that way, and it makes sense to compensate for her inability to aim with extreme power, but Iji's still an unfun character to play against because of the way she can trap certain characters in inescapable ways. It still makes the character FEEL overpowered, whether or not they actually are.

Though thinking back, that may just be a personal opinion.. I'd hate to speak for others, but for me, it's just so damn aggitating to get boxed into a spot I can't escape or attack from by a super powerful laser. Maybe make the beam shoot out a little slower, allowing just a pinch more time to escape it? Or add a half second pause when it's been activated, showing a big purple ball over the gun that shows it's time to dodge (sorta like a quicktime event)? Or reduce its height? For certain classes, it's almost impossible to jump over.


Anyone up for some games? I can host

I'd love to!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 07:36:31 pm by [PHS] Killah Zillah »
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Kirtan

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #459 on: August 16, 2011, 07:35:31 pm »

I would love to play :)

Also, in my opinion what Rebel is saying is right.
Leave OP classes the way they are and increase UP classes level.

Iji can be defeated easily if you "stay on top of her".
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Killah Zillah

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #460 on: August 16, 2011, 07:40:23 pm »

I would love to play :)

Also, in my opinion what Rebel is saying is right.
Leave OP classes the way they are and increase UP classes level.

Iji can be defeated easily if you "stay on top of her".

It still doesn't make the character any fun to play against, balanced or not. But again, as I just said, maybe nobody shares my opinion. But Rebel asked for people's detailed opinions a page back, and I know I'd like it if people gave detailed opinions about MY work, so I put a lot of thought into my feedback on how to improve the game and make it more fun.

dAn

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #461 on: August 16, 2011, 07:50:52 pm »

Love how people completely ignore my reply...
Also Iji's lazer only does alot of damage if you repeatedly get hit which only happens in a hallway with a short ceiling
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Kirtan

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #462 on: August 16, 2011, 07:51:13 pm »

I would love to play :)

Also, in my opinion what Rebel is saying is right.
Leave OP classes the way they are and increase UP classes level.

Iji can be defeated easily if you "stay on top of her".

It still doesn't make the character any fun to play against, balanced or not. But again, as I just said, maybe nobody shares my opinion. But Rebel asked for people's detailed opinions a page back, and I know I'd like it if people gave detailed opinions about MY work, so I put a lot of thought into my feedback on how to improve the game and make it more fun.

I didn't contradict/go against your "opinion". I stated mine.

:) Let's see what others think.
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Killah Zillah

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #463 on: August 16, 2011, 07:55:35 pm »

Love how people completely ignore my reply...
Also Iji's lazer only does alot of damage if you repeatedly get hit which only happens in a hallway with a short ceiling

I ignored it because you were basically telling me not to give my opinion, which is wrong. I'm free to give it, and Rebel himself asked for more detailed opinions on how to make the game better. The only things I could say to it are things that would probably start a heated arguement.

I didn't contradict/go against your "opinion". I stated mine.

:) Let's see what others think.

I know that. Why're you acting like I didn't? What else could you have been doing other than posting your opinion? I was just responding to it. And what's with the quotes around opinion?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 07:57:36 pm by [PHS] Killah Zillah »
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RebelINS

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Re: INS Mod Official Topic | Enjoy Version 1.03.1 for the weekend
« Reply #464 on: August 16, 2011, 07:58:54 pm »

1.03.2

I'll be hosting with this version.
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