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Author Topic: Classlimits Conundrum  (Read 879 times)

JerseyJackal

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Classlimits Conundrum
« on: June 22, 2017, 06:42:00 am »

What with the freedom to change classlimits, it comes off as confusing to me when people seem upset with your settings regardless of what you do. Ultimately it's on the host to decide their own stuff, but I'd like to discuss a few questions about classlimts in general, just to inspire discussion and possibly come to a consensus (probably too optimistic here).
  • What kind of classlimits do you guys like the best?
  • Why?
  • Furthermore, what about the idea of dynamic classlimits (classlimits which change based on the number of people in the server)?
  • How would you ideally want something like to operate (player / gamemode threshhold / map for certain classlimits, how it would be triggered, etc.)?
  • What do you think of the current competitive / pug gg2 classlimits (one of each)?
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Mr.kown

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2017, 12:45:42 pm »

what if we had the i'm blue server for pubs and JJ for people on the forums
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INSERT NAME

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2017, 01:27:38 pm »

thats what pugs are for
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bullets (obviously)

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2017, 10:47:20 pm »

classlimits should expand with number of players on server

highlander is far more restrictive at 9v9 than 4v4

i don't actually expect anyone to implement this
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von toucan

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 12:16:32 am »

Let me preface this by saying I know far less about the state of this game than many others on this forum. Feel free to correct me if you disagree with something I say here.

I agree with bullets that classlimits expanding based on the number of players is a good idea. Currently, new players joining a team of 7 players have a choice between 3 classes in highlander, and that number only decreases as newer players join. If it's doable, I'd like to see it.

In addition, I don't think that pure highlander is the way to go. I like the two suggestions that were listed in an earlier poll you (JJ) made, those suggestions being:
Quote
  • 1 of cheesy shit like medic, engie, 2 of everything else
  • 1 of stuff bad players flock to (sniper, spy), 2 of everything else

I'm not sure exactly which classes I think should be limited to one, but I think a good start would be sniper, medic, spy, and engie. Two sentries guarding intel can be a nightmare for an average team, but two competent spies are a nightmare for a lone engie. Two medics popping uber can be really hard to answer, and two snipers is just annoying.

I think these limits would bring together the benefits of highlander and 2 of each class/"twolander" and mitigate the downsides. Currently, highlander's benefits are the encouragement of diversity and a good team comp, the downsides being the fact that it rewards certain classes more than others (having a good scout, which can be played offensively and defensively, can be more valuable than having a good engie, who - due to his movement and arsenal - is largely limited to defense). Another related downside is that having a bad player take up spots that other players would be better suited for is irreversible, meaning that if bad scout player is playing scout, good scout player is forced to choose a different class. Having 2 of each class prevents the latter from happening, but does little to stop "cheesy" stuff like 2 heavy-medic combos or 2 spies bringing down a CTF team.

Within the proposed limits, there would still be an encouragement towards good, diverse team comp, even if it isn't as strong as highlander. (It would also make sure you never end up with a team with two failspies, whereas you can still play scout if there's a bad player hogging scout.) The major downside here is that it still places an emphasis on generalist classes rather than specialist classes, because (unfortunately) these classes that bad players flock to, or these classes that do cheesy stuff when stacked, happen to be primarily generalist.

TL;DR: I like the options in quotes. Maybe a combination of the two.
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Phantom Brave

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 02:55:29 am »

Doesn't that just mean one of support classes and two of power classes. That's a recipe for disaster at the wrong player counts, especially if there's only one medic in a full server.
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Rumrusher

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 01:07:36 pm »

ehh classlimits seem to be a lose lose set up where you go limit which class because of what one person or a group of people said,
then you make the other group of folks upset mostly because the limit was set up because of them, and boils down to who do you want to pamper.
highlander where there only 9 classes to choose once seems to bring issues with bad players taking a spot now if you did highlander where there only one class to play and the others are gone then you have nothing to worry about as everyone is the same class. stacklander
there really is only one.
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AKVARI

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 01:48:52 pm »

In my opinion, highlander is bad at high player numbers. If it's 6-10 players then it's okay but more than that is a no-no. A better server option is to classlimit every class to 2.

Medic and engi to 1? What are you talking about. I could just enter the game, select medic and when my team needs me I'll just stand in the spawn spamming happy z5 bubbles, giving no shits about my teams' low hp or them burning in flares.
Sniper and spy 1? That's okay to me, especially spy because the bad players should kill players and destroy sentries without a simple knife that fails for them (mostly)

But if you're talking about adding a new feature, then I suggest the devs add an option where the host can choose to change classlimit settings in-game, in a way where if there's 11 players playing then classlimits increase by 2.


What Rumrusher said, I must agree. There's always atleast one player upset about the classlimits.
Wouldn't it be better to not set classlimits at all?
I mean, we've been playing this game without classlimits for more than 5 years (8-9 if you count the other servers like BTW that still have no classlimits) and I don't see much problems in it except for bad players choosing classes like spy.

In conclusion, I don't care whether the server has classlimits or not.

INSERT NAME

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 08:50:28 pm »

yeah, i just played a round of 60s dkoth and just two pyro stacks were enough to win
joined ten minutes before the end and managed to rack up 52 points
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bullets (obviously)

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2017, 03:13:06 am »

its almost like stacking gets you easy wins regardless of class
:thinking:
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INSERT NAME

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2017, 09:12:02 pm »

go stack medic and face some non-retards mkay
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bullets (obviously)

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Re: Classlimits Conundrum
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2017, 08:14:44 am »

>medic
>stack
>face some non-retards

>stack

:thinking:
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