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Author Topic: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!  (Read 24229 times)

B.illy S.O.D.

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2014, 10:21:27 am »

dkoth really doesn't last as long in comp, it can become a stalemate in pubs with high player counts when people literally don't push out and just turtle on the point, in low player counts you're basically forced to go out and the time will go down fast, unless the teams are really evenly matched which tbh isn't the case with most matches
I personally haven't played with that plugin but I can imagine that people would abuse it by playing extremely passive when they have the least time. People sometimes do this in 5cp tf2 (park the bus) so idk, kinda depends on what the playerbase here thinks of it

it would be a shame if arena couldn't get in though, maybe push a small hotfix patch?
Playing extremely passive might actually be pretty dangerous because as you said before, there's a low player count. Though I'll probably need more time to think this over, I might put dkoth into a special map category where both teams have to agree for it to be a viable map pick.

As for arena, I think Wareya already knows, since
This should fix the two crashes (arena, flames) and three causes of desync (quote blades, inconsistent movement acceleration, healing ramp), and 2.6s that should be 2.7s.
I haven't tested it at all (I'm not positive it runs properly) so I won't put up a main release. It's on my git.
https://copy.com/3LYGKYenBeTH6vV4/gg2%202.7.2%20%2B%20hotfix.exe
Arceus and a pretty recent pug both used the hotfix, but they both still had problems. I might be missing something here though. Either way, I'll probably ask Wareya if it's been fixed yet.

Also here is the plugin:
http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=32567.msg1108664#msg1108664
It's not the same one; the other one granted an immediate win instead of counting down. However, this actually might be more useful than the other.We'll see. Thanks Sparky!!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 10:24:30 am by B.illy S.O.D. »
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Intel Guard

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2014, 10:58:57 am »

lmao at the salt. dkoth took 21 minutes long in a match in his own tourney. euros play dkoth 3v3 (i have commentated for rd in the past, at least i think it was rd) which is much faster but 4v4 or 5v5 that shit takes forever. even at 3v3 ive see matches take ten minutes in older pugs. that you can defend the gamemode as a choice and then try to demean oduvuschwa and mountainjazz for being too big/long is laughable.

being totally serious, i dont even get the mountainjazz hate, mountainjazz is agreed upon to be a good map by almost everyone except you and your reasons for disliking it are so discordant (too big... yet ends too quickly). the appeal in mountainjazz lies in the fact that it is extremely hard to cap mid due to the stones, making it a really tense battle. the final points on the cliff are an awesome concept too in that if a full team commits to break your cap you can easily be pushed off so you ahve to figure out how to put a stopgap up between enemy spawn and the point. it also works conversely in that the other team fights an uphill battle- literally- and needs to coordinate to win. if both teams are good mountainjazz is intense, but its timely too. as a cp map its one of the best.

you dont present anything for why oduvuschwa is truly bad (in fact, odu is even better for 5v5) when the action is centralized on the middle point and results in a very balanced push pull dynamic, comparable to that of harvest (center) or corinth (top of center to center). one of the better points of oduvushwa i feel is the platforming around the center - adds way more variety to the gameplay. i havent seen an oduvuschwa match where the maps length affected the gameplay. it goes about as sooth as any other koth map. all it takes is one team push to get things going. in fact the added length gives mor eleeway to coordinate pushes.

in the end dkoth is ass for comp matches. the ability to abuse time, the ease to which you can stalemate, and the sheer fact that most of the maps are fucking terrible make it just a laughable a pick as gen. that gamemodes ship has sailed. stick to your guns billy. btw arena is cool you should keep it in
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 11:09:55 am by McD. Intel Guard »
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\esc144aAroundTheWorld\esca

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2014, 11:28:22 am »

Not that I'd know much, but dkoth should be allowed but limited, if you can understand me.
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Intel Guard

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2014, 11:35:20 am »

i dont see a reason for including it at all. if we were to use the map pick/scratch idea, that means people could just use dkoth to force scratches while the other two maps of their choosing get in scot free. you bank it on the idea that most people HATE dkoth FOR GOOD REASON, and would never want to go through with it. thats just me theorycrafting, but its plausible

btw, i still dislike the 5v5 idea. and i dislike the liberal sub usage which if anything i wished to crack down on last tourney (hence my perpetual, nevernding grand finals.) If youre just gonna win cause you have the better sub, theres no weight to your victory. every clan last tourney had this issue besides 7h lol (mine included)
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I've been listening to a bit of Green Day recently (past 2 months actually). Really raises the level of "fuckethesystem" in me.  :z5:
"god is dead."♫♫♫

cabalier

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2014, 03:03:31 pm »

I don't have too much experience with competitive dkoth, and I too love racking up 150 points in a single match, but I'm inclined to agree that dkoth as it stands is very very bad as a competitive game mode

as for the maps, mountainjazz is pretty solid and "competitive", and I'm not too fond of odvüschwa because of its size but I've played good matches on it and can see how it's "competitive"

not too fond of watertower either

I would maybe ctf_paramental and cp_granary, they're not perfect but I think they're lots of fun and in my experience at least have led to decent matches

B.illy S.O.D.

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2014, 03:14:39 pm »

i dont see a reason for including it at all. if we were to use the map pick/scratch idea, that means people could just use dkoth to force scratches while the other two maps of their choosing get in scot free. you bank it on the idea that most people HATE dkoth FOR GOOD REASON, and would never want to go through with it. thats just me theorycrafting, but its plausible

btw, i still dislike the 5v5 idea. and i dislike the liberal sub usage which if anything i wished to crack down on last tourney (hence my perpetual, nevernding grand finals.) If youre just gonna win cause you have the better sub, theres no weight to your victory. every clan last tourney had this issue besides 7h lol (mine included)
Yea, that map scratching theory kinda made me think it over, so that's why I said that both sides would have to agree for it to even BE a viable map pick. If they didn't, the team that suggested the dkoth would have to pick another viable map to be scratched. I also agree that the layout needs some work. But, from what I've seen, they take about 7~ mins in a 3 v 3 comp match (which is still pretty long lol.) The plugins as mentioned might be able to cut time too. Still making up my mind about this. Gotta study so I'll put more thought into it later. Though where I'm leaning is probably having both clans agreeing to use it as a viable map pick if they so choose. Though you have to think about commentators/organizers who don't exactly have the most time in the world.

As for liberal sub usage,
- You can use any sub as long as he is not on the roster of a competing team.
^again pretty vague, but the way it's supposed to go is this. Going along with

Quote from: Sub Rules
5 v 4: I'd allow a sub in this case.

4 v 4: I would NOT allow subs even if they are available.

4 v 3: I would allow a sub in this case.

3 v 3: I might allow subs, postpone, or even 3 v 3 if both teams feel that is in their interest.

2 v 2 to 1 v 1: Why are you even here.
If you need to sub, you are tied to your sub that you submit in your application. In the event that say your sub or another member hasn't arrived, outside subs, as stated in the first quote, cannot be picked if they are on the roster of any competing team. That's pretty strict if you ask me. Though if you have a different method in mind, I'm willing to hear it.
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Heenok

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2014, 04:09:47 pm »

dkoth isn't really great in competitive settings because backcaps are too strong (shoutouts to lenowolf)

the only way to counter a backcap for a team that is commited to offense is to cap before the backcaper which doesn't have an intrinsic high success rate. furthermore, if the backcaper fails he will be actively defending as soon as he respawn, minimizing the gain of the other team.

1 man defense isn't that helpful since as soon as the defense fails, the offense is also cockblocked by the backcap because it locks the point.

in the end it creates matches that are really slow except if a team clearly dominate the other. in pubs it's still fun since it becomes similar to deathmatch and it isn't adcp
could you add ad_shitnpee to the map list plz?

possible fix would be to make x1 and x2 caps much slower? or make better maps

i've experimented with a dkoth map that is played like koth where the points are used to control forward spawn and shift the center of the map which was supposed to alter the overall dynamic. i am not too satisfied with the end result but i believe it's an interesting map in competitive settings


(5players per team+1sub per team)*8teams = 48 competitive players
cleverbot, do gg2 forums have more than 48 good players?
you're a fagot
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notarctic

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2014, 05:46:48 pm »

As for arena, I think Wareya already knows, since
This should fix the two crashes (arena, flames) and three causes of desync (quote blades, inconsistent movement acceleration, healing ramp), and 2.6s that should be 2.7s.
I haven't tested it at all (I'm not positive it runs properly) so I won't put up a main release. It's on my git.
https://copy.com/3LYGKYenBeTH6vV4/gg2%202.7.2%20%2B%20hotfix.exe
Arceus and a pretty recent pug both used the hotfix, but they both still had problems. I might be missing something here though. Either way, I'll probably ask Wareya if it's been fixed yet.
Icemilk♥Magic: hey arctic Billy you know about our awesome bug tracker
Icemilk♥Magic: you should use it

Anyways you could also post on that thread and some sort of actual error message would be nice

Also here is the plugin:
http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=32567.msg1108664#msg1108664
It's not the same one; the other one granted an immediate win instead of counting down. However, this actually might be more useful than the other.We'll see. Thanks Sparky!!
I think you might be referring to a mechanic already in the game
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[1:37:51 PM] Derpduck: arctic u need to quote ppl that make shit posts in case they edit them
[4:20:15 PM] Rubeus Hashgrid: i cant discover anything fuck you imageshack

B.illy S.O.D.

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2014, 06:07:13 pm »

Some really good thoughts here.
Will keep that in mind. I form a decision today/tomorrow/eventually keep feeding me info guys.

Anyways you could also post on that thread and some sort of actual error message would be nice
Was going to eventually do that. Too much work today >.< (and probably for the next 2 weeks as I do exams).

I think you might be referring to a mechanic already in the game
Can you determine the time before a stale?
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MAY HEGEHOG

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2014, 06:17:51 pm »



                    SEVENTH7HHEAVEN                   
                     REWRITE BRS MAY INTEL HEENOK                     

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u koodif leffed mi hear, seeld insyd te pod . no one wood everr no
te k-aws kuntroll.. my troo eyedenditty, te powerr that izz miii!
we all danse in fiya! trap in this masheen!! donnno how long we waytid, azz te egghed's washing!
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Footpöp

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2014, 09:02:00 pm »

wow...
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B.illy S.O.D.

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2014, 03:31:06 pm »

Added [7H].

Arena seems to be okay. Couldn't replicate the bug, and the bug listed in the tracker is the one that happened at Arceus's server so it musta been something weird.

No ad/cp because I don't have time to watch 2 matches of one the longer modes of gg2.

As for dkoth, still leaning towards both teams agreeing for it being a viable map pick. Those teams that don't want to deal with it don't have to, and the more adventurous can try it out. Though I'll keep it on an experimental basis and not put it in the actual pool that the random maps will be drawn from. If the mode drags on too long I'll probably exclude it from the tourney altogether.

As for maps added, I'm okay with paramental, granary, and karvest (because little crate changes warrant this to be officially announced).
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ajf

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2014, 06:32:43 pm »

Why's this in clans not tourneys?
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aka Andrea.

did you know that spinning stars work like this???

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. execute_strings on fire off the shoulder of Overmars. I watched object-beams glitter in the dark near the room_goto_fix. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die.

drmalpractice

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2014, 06:42:20 pm »

because it's a tournament for clans, hosted by the clans mod
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ajf

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Re: 2014 SUMMER ESCAPE!!
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2014, 07:49:46 pm »

I guess that makes sense.
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aka Andrea.

did you know that spinning stars work like this???

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. execute_strings on fire off the shoulder of Overmars. I watched object-beams glitter in the dark near the room_goto_fix. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die.
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