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[ajf]

[12.55am] <ajf> wareya: the weirdest GM bug is the “Trigger event” one
[12:55am] <ajf> There’s no explanation for it
[12:55am] <ajf> But sometimes
[12:55am] <ajf> errors show up as being from “Trigger event” in <some object>
[12:55am] <ajf> rather than their actual location
[12:55am] <wareya> yeah
[12:55am] <ajf> it’s not even a plugin thing
[12:56am] <ajf> it’s really fucking bizarre

[Vindicator]

IIT we remind ourselves GML isn't a real language.

[Phantom Brave]

It's a real language, it's just really fucking fucked up.

[ajf]

It's a real language, it's just really fucking fucked up.

Right. There are no "real" languages.

Granted, a lot of my problems with GML are just problems with how much Game Maker sucks.

[NAGN]

IIT we remind ourselves GML isn't a real language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_complete

[Vindicator]

Shit guys, I'm aware of what makes languages real. When you've done research in compiler and language design, it's hard not to see GML as a toy language. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't real unless you'd be comfortable putting it on your resume.

"ITT we remind ourselves GML isn't a real language" because complaining about GML's functionality is akin to complaining about the offroad capabilities of training wheels. The developers of Game Makers have created what is at most a teaching tool for Game Development 101. Which I took. It sucked.

[ajf]

I wouldn't mind putting it on my resumé. I've written some good code in it.

[Vindicator]

I wouldn't mind putting it on my resumé. I've written some good code in it.

That would go on a portfolio. Even if you're going into game development, "Proficiencies: GML" on your resume is worthless, and possibly detrimental if you're going into SE.

In fact, that code won't even get you anywhere on a portfolio. If you put Gang Garrison as a whole on your portfolio, it atleast shows you've had some teamwork experience. Snippets of code in GML, regardless of its function, is tantamount to saying you've built the millennium falcon with LEGOs.

That's to put it softly. I'm convinced that if you ever show GML over any other example to an employer, you would be laughed at on the spot. You're trying to prove your potential worth to an employer, not attending a show and tell. If you can implement something worthwhile in GML, you can also do it better using another language.

[ajf]

With LEGOs? No. It's an obscure language, but I can still be proud of code written in it. GML is not that different from some major programming languages.

Also, yes, I can't list it as a language I know if I want a job. But Haskell is a real programming language I know, and I also probably can't list that.

Being real and being employable for working with it are not the same thing.

[NAGN]

The funny thing about GG2 is that all of the interesting bits, like our networking engine, and (soon to be audio engine) are implemented in GML, while we use C++/C libraries for the more mundane stuff (initalizing contexts, and interfacing with sockets).

The GML parts of our engine are, other than our graphical engine, theoretically the most portable part of our engine.

@ the effectiveness of GML in job prospects, I'd think that the revision control system and the fact that GG2 is managed by multiple people at all makes it mentionable. No one really applies for an SE position with experience in only one programming language anyways. It's certainly more reasonable than LabView, which is something that people actually put on their resumes and recieve training in...

That being said, you'd hope your employer doesn't actually see the codebase... or realize that a large portion of it is cobbled together by teenagers with little formal programming experience

[Vindicator]

That's fine if that's how you want to think about it, it simply isn't how I do. If it has worth in neither an academic nor an industrial context then it is not much more than a toy.

[ajf]

That's fine if that's how you want to think about it, it simply isn't how I do. If it has worth in neither an academic nor an industrial context then it is not much more than a toy.

A programming language is useful if you can make stuff with it. GG2 is something made with GML. GG2 is pretty cool.

Now go away because this is a thread to moan about bugs

[NAGN]

That's fine if that's how you want to think about it, it simply isn't how I do. If it has worth in neither an academic nor an industrial context then it is not much more than a toy.

That's a bit harsh. If whatever purpose GML has had, I'm certain that it has had a greater impact on all of us beyond a My Little Pony Doll. Even if its only purpose is for us to strive for a true programming language, I see things like Scratch, TI Basic, GML, and other infuriatingly terrible development platforms as essential to raising awareness of programming in general by being easy to use and being openly available.

I'm certain Derk Yu would hesitate to claim that Game Maker served as merely a toy while writing Spelunky. Games are, after all, games. It doesn't matter what you write it in.

That's fine if that's how you want to think about it, it simply isn't how I do. If it has worth in neither an academic nor an industrial context then it is not much more than a toy.

A programming language is useful if you can make stuff with it. GG2 is something made with GML. GG2 is pretty cool.

Now go away because this is a thread to moan about bugs

also yeah

[Vindicator]

Well, I guess I contradicted myself anyway. GameMaker does have value in an academic setting because it's a good introduction to game development, hence being used in GAM101.

[\esc144aAroundTheWorld\esca]

Yeah what NAGN said