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Author Topic: How to do a war: The newcomers guide  (Read 6790 times)

Footpöp

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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2011, 07:54:59 pm »

On choosing classes:

Pick one slot, and don't change to any class other than the ones for that slot. Don't fucking do it.


Best advice I've ever read in regards to competitive GG2
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Intel Guard

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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2011, 05:41:49 pm »

Quote
:x23: :x24: :x26: :x21:

Can we stop pretending this is the only way to 4v4 and instead encourage people to strategize based on the map, the opponent and the individuals strengths of the team? No? Okay cool.
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 06:00:24 am »

Sadly, but no matter what you try,  :x21: :x23: :x24: :x26: is possibly still the best team composition :v You can always replace the  :x21: with classes like  :x25: :x29: :x27: :x22: if you feel like doing so but replacing the other ones is kinda...stupid.
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2011, 10:20:18 am »

you could replace the heavy with demo
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2011, 10:32:44 am »

you could replace the heavy with demo

we ([GA]) tried that a long while back and got our faces raped off in large part because you can't directly engage the enemy heavies and constantly have to move(usually backwards). We found things performed much better when we switched in the heavy and just made the rocketman/deto interchangeable. We did find pyro an acceptable alternative to heavy on waterway because hoov is slow but who the hell uses waterway anymore. I really did want to try   :x13:  :x15:  :quote:  :x16: with Quote bubbles providing a way for the explosive classes to engage heavies but there was no one who could really play quote rolf. That, and it would have left us really prone to backcaps.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 10:35:29 am by [NIGA] Llama Cheetos »
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Intel Guard

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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2011, 02:38:58 pm »

Sadly, but no matter what you try,  :x21: :x23: :x24: :x26: is possibly still the best team composition :v You can always replace the  :x21: with classes like  :x25: :x29: :x27: :x22: if you feel like doing so but replacing the other ones is kinda...stupid.
No, it's not, because that is too much of a blanket statement. Consider maps a Heavy's shit mobility is too detrimental. In fact, the only constant of a team should be the medic.
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trog

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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2011, 05:42:49 pm »

What map do you have in mind...?
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2011, 06:03:35 pm »

Does there need to be a specific map? I'll throw a few maps out. I was just using Heavy's mobility as one factor of why always using that comp sucks, but anyway. Badlands, Thumbs and Sixties all count.

But it's not the point. Playing a cookie cutter setup on every map in every game against every opponent is stupid. Class comps should be dynamic and depend on the situation, especially ingame. It's not taboo to anchor or have a team actively switch up during a game. It works and it's proven to work. Somewhere along the line we started bashing it into people's heads that "this is how you play a 4v4, and if you don't you will lose."

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trog

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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2011, 10:02:02 pm »

Ehh I think it's a bit more than simply being the general mentality.

A heavy is simply too hard to push against, and there's no other reliable way to counter it other than mirroring. Even though his mobility may be detrimental, at all times one team is trying to hold ground and one is trying to gain it. Speed is a non issue for the holders, so they'll run a heavy, so then the pushers need a heavy to take down their heavy, and yay everyone's running heavy all the time. Dump a heavy on your point on sixties and bam, they can't push you off without one too. Honestly I think banning him would really diversify class selection, giving place for classes like deto and pyro. But then we have the whole concept of completely banning classes in a class based game which is kind of durr.

Soldier on the other hand is played because it's easy (not to devalue good soldiers or justify bad ones). I'd definitely like to see pyro being run instead of solly, especially with his buffs, and deto with the damage buff could be played in place as well. I guess the theory behind running deto or pyro is if you're really good you can outperform a soldier. I unno if that actually holds true, and it's kind of difficult to measure with no demo system, but the possibility is there.

It'd actually be really cool if we could get Flow to break the soldier mentality and bring some classes to be 'full time' replacements.

And for scout I think it boils down to two things. 1, we picked the shittiest game mode to be our most popular. ctf just makes scout way too powerful, and we really only have one good map, yet we play it the most. :/

And 2, although on ctf scout's speed should mean it's easier for him to offclass since he can run to spawn faster, the offclasses aren't really effective enough for people to justify learning totally new classes and when they apply etc. It's basically become a lost art. Again it would be cool if Flow could reintroduce it. As game modes go, 3cp and koth are far better for increasing the viability of other classes.

but yeah basically what I'm saying is the standard rollout is more easymodo
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2011, 10:10:22 pm »

Ehh I think it's a bit more than simply being the general mentality.

A heavy is simply too hard to push against, and there's no other reliable way to counter it other than mirroring. Even though his mobility may be detrimental, at all times one team is trying to hold ground and one is trying to gain it. Speed is a non issue for the holders, so they'll run a heavy, so then the pushers need a heavy to take down their heavy, and yay everyone's running heavy all the time. Dump a heavy on your point on sixties and bam, they can't push you off without one too. Honestly I think banning him would really diversify class selection, giving place for classes like deto and pyro. But then we have the whole concept of completely banning classes in a class based game which is kind of durr.

Soldier on the other hand is played because it's easy (not to devalue good soldiers or justify bad ones). I'd definitely like to see pyro being run instead of solly, especially with his buffs, and deto with the damage buff could be played in place as well. I guess the theory behind running deto or pyro is if you're really good you can outperform a soldier. I unno if that actually holds true, and it's kind of difficult to measure with no demo system, but the possibility is there.

It'd actually be really cool if we could get Flow to break the soldier mentality and bring some classes to be 'full time' replacements.

And for scout I think it boils down to two things. 1, we picked the shittiest game mode to be our most popular. ctf just makes scout way too powerful, and we really only have one good map, yet we play it the most. :/

And 2, although on ctf scout's speed should mean it's easier for him to offclass since he can run to spawn faster, the offclasses aren't really effective enough for people to justify learning totally new classes and when they apply etc. It's basically become a lost art. Again it would be cool if Flow could reintroduce it. As game modes go, 3cp and koth are far better for increasing the viability of other classes.

but yeah basically what I'm saying is the standard rollout is more easymodo
Did you watch the VAL matches? The only real constant on our team was a heavymedic, mostly because me and Slob were used to pocketing eachother. S-Z and Wareya used a variety of classes and comps you don't usually see and they worked like a charm. That one koth map I keep forgetting the name of was a good one, because Wareya chose Q/C, knowing how viable it was on the map. That's what I'm talking about, and I'm sure Fw> will be able to pull it off. My point is that even it's not as easy, it works, and you become a better, more formidable team for it.

All of your other points are good, and I agree. I just wish it weren't so, because cookie cutter 4v4 is just boring and changing it up could really affect the outcome of a match.
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trog

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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 10:13:44 pm »

hm I shall watch them tomorrow
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 10:18:31 pm »

Intel, are you talking about koth_corinth?
Q/C a bitch on that map because they can push you off the point platform.
I see where you're getting at with adapting to certain maps.
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2011, 10:21:16 pm »

Intel, are you talking about koth_corinth?
Q/C a bitch on that map because they can push you off the point platform.
I see where you're getting at with adapting to certain maps.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It was way more viable than a runner, as per the usual rollout.
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 06:36:38 am »

I would honestly only consider Runner to be highly important in ctf. Ive always preferred dropping it for something like a deto when another format comes up. Unfortunately, ctf has a big emphasis on backpcaps. I think it would be interesting to see ctf matches without the Runner; there would be a lot more variety.

And again, part pf it comes down to how 4v4 kinda sucks because you have to fill so many roles in 3 spots(medic is a given) but it became necessary because getting 8 people to show up for something is a miracle, let alone 10 or 12. The 6v6s in the clan tourney were a nice change of pace.
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Re: How to do a war: The newcomers guide
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 10:11:24 am »

medic + heavy + engie + quote is best team
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