The Gang Garrison 2 Forum
Gang Garrison Discussion => Announcements => Topic started by: MedO on October 16, 2011, 01:38:33 pm
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New beta folks! We haven't been able to take care of everything yet (in particular, we will definitely still fix the two crash bugs before release), but here is what we have managed so far.
A reminder, please don't just paste bugs in the thread, but report them at Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/gg2/+filebug)! Otherwise we constantly have to search the thread for things that have not been fixed yet, and we can forget or overlook reports. Thanks!
Download here (http://www.ganggarrison.com/filehost/Gang Garrison 2 v2.4b5.zip)
- Re-add haxxy rewards
- Fixed screenshot crash (Bug #874367)
- Prevented Medigun from rendering itself when its owner is humiliated (Bug #871499)
- Minigun adjusted such that the user must release the primary fire in order to begin reloading, even when out of ammo
- Updated gen_destroy's background for easier readability
- Adjusted DKotH force-endround conditions such that the hostTimer isn't reset too frequently.
- Now will only reset the timer when control point status makes a change via capture. Standing on a point will only stall the hostTimer
- Updated Readme.txt with information about new mode, new maps, removed information about .locator files, fixed an incorrect health value of Rocketman
- F10 no longer ends the game, but resizes and moves the window to its defaults now.
- Changed screenshot filename format to "YYYY-MM-DD hh-mm-ss.png"
- Implemented sorting for the lobby list (shows compatible servers first and sorts by name)
- Fixed medibeam draw position
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re add haxxy reward is so special it has to be mentioned twice :hehe:
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Where? What? I don't see it. And I didn't copypaste! How dare you make such an accusation?!
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« Last Edit: Today at 01:41:53 pm by MedO »
YOU GAVE YOURSELF AWAY BRO
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Hosting.
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« Last Edit: Today at 01:41:53 pm by MedO »
YOU GAVE YOURSELF AWAY BRO
i dont get it.
MedO apparently edited his post, and RBY's accusing him of having done so to hide his mistake.
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- F10 no longer ends the game, but resizes and moves the window to its defaults now.
- Updated Readme.txt with information about new mode, new maps, removed information about .locator files, fixed an incorrect health value of rocketman
:woot:
- Minigun adjusted such that the user must release the primary fire in order to begin reloading, even when out of ammo
Wait wat.
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Cool, my request actually got put into the game! :wuv:
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Disagree with the minigun change. Every other class doesn't have to release m1. Just add the minigun cooldown back in/make it longer than the reload buffer.
Also no heal rate change or curved flames...
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make flares arch please
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- Changed screenshot filename format to "YYYY-MM-DD hh-mm-ss.png"
- Fixed medibeam draw position
yay
- Changed screenshot filename format to "YYYY-MM-DD hh-mm-ss.png"
- Implemented sorting for the lobby list (shows compatible servers first and sorts by name)
- Fixed medibeam draw position
Sorting by name seems pointless(unless you mean name of the game and not server name); Should sort either by number of open slots, or game name(to bunch all servers of the same game together)
EDIT: the F10 feature works but it freezes the screen until a key or mouse button is pressed, and key releases don't register during the "freeze" period, meaning you might find your self automatically walking if you held that key when you pressed F10. Not a big problem but worth bringing up.
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make flares arch please
Straight makes it...Straighter.
Straight flares make firebug better.
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make flares arch please
Straight makes it...Straighter.
what
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make flares arch please
Straight makes it...Straighter.
what
Flare is straight in 2.4.
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How does straight flares make firebug better?
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How does straight flares make firebug better?
Flare tennis.
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In terms of actual gameplay.
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In terms of actual gameplay.
None whatsoever. Though the added range is pretty nifty.
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it's 1000% less bullshit to aim.
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"waaah, I can't compensate for gravity :("
I don't see the problem with introducing actual skill indexing to the range firebug isn't supposed to be good at.
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- Minigun adjusted such that the user must release the primary fire in order to begin reloading, even when out of ammo
Wait wat.
It has no effect on gameplay except when you run out of ammo. In that situation, just stop trying to fire you gun and you'll start to reload.
It also removes that former unintended ability to just fart out 1 bullet every so often because of how the reloading worked in the previous pre-release beta.
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it's 1000% less bullshit to aim.
Might as well make detonator's stickies go in a straight line
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Alright.
And...
I don't see the problem with introducing actual skill indexing to the range firebug isn't supposed to be good at.
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"waaah, I can't compensate for gravity :("
I don't see the problem with introducing actual skill indexing to the range firebug isn't supposed to be good at.
Say that to Psycho having trouble aiming it at a distance.
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There's also the issue of decync fire, as your aimposition is updated independently of when you're actually firing the weapon, with a straighter flare, theoretically it's less likely to veer off course (though this probably wasn't considered for implementation)
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You didn't fix the medic heal ramp yet.
I might as well quote Trog:
Current: 15hp/s for 4 seconds, heal rate increases by 10hp/s every sec over 3 seconds, 45hp/s
This: 15hp/s for 1 second, heal rate increases by 5hp/s every sec over 2 seconds, 25hp/s for 4 seconds, 45hp/s.
Basically instead of waiting for a long time then getting a really fast and high ramp up, you get a decently fast and high ramp up very quickly. A 4 second wait time is too long for heals to only start increasing, but you don't need 45hp/s heals either. This compliments gg2's fast pace by ramping up quickly during short breaks, and rewarding constant pressure. One second is a long enough interval for every class to attack except sniper, but really being a fraction of a second late will be hardly noticeable.
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So, I have an idea. When a non-vanilla mod is hosted, and viewable in the lobby, can it be programmed so that clicking the mod name will take it to its respective forum thread? Take INS Mod for example. Let's say a non-forumer with some skill sees "INS MOD v. 1.05" under Game/Mod. They say, "OOH WHAT IS THAT!" and click it. Their browser opens up (much like the Haxxy link) with Rebel's page. They sign up, download, expand our community, and get an incredible mod.
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It's already programmed like that
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You didn't fix the medic heal ramp yet.
I might as well quote Trog:
Current: 15hp/s for 4 seconds, heal rate increases by 10hp/s every sec over 3 seconds, 45hp/s
This: 15hp/s for 1 second, heal rate increases by 5hp/s every sec over 2 seconds, 25hp/s for 4 seconds, 45hp/s.
Basically instead of waiting for a long time then getting a really fast and high ramp up, you get a decently fast and high ramp up very quickly. A 4 second wait time is too long for heals to only start increasing, but you don't need 45hp/s heals either. This compliments gg2's fast pace by ramping up quickly during short breaks, and rewarding constant pressure. One second is a long enough interval for every class to attack except sniper, but really being a fraction of a second late will be hardly noticeable.
I can only do so much, be patient. I'll push that commit to github as soon as I have some time available after I get home from work. It's not too difficult to change. I just need to adjust 2 variables to mess around with the heal ramp (or even adjust the base healing rate if it's deemed too low overall).
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Cool, my request actually got put into the game! :wuv:
mine too :z6: :z6:
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Or maybe purple, since, uh....
purple.
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When I opened today, I said: "WHAT TO F*CK!?" When I see thread: "Oic"
Screw this. Wrong.
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WHAT TO FUCK?!
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Current: 15hp/s for 4 seconds, heal rate increases by 10hp/s every sec over 3 seconds, 45hp/s
This: 15hp/s for 1 second, heal rate increases by 5hp/s every sec over 2 seconds, 25hp/s for 4 seconds, 45hp/s.
Basically instead of waiting for a long time then getting a really fast and high ramp up, you get a decently fast and high ramp up very quickly. A 4 second wait time is too long for heals to only start increasing, but you don't need 45hp/s heals either. This compliments gg2's fast pace by ramping up quickly during short breaks, and rewarding constant pressure. One second is a long enough interval for every class to attack except sniper, but really being a fraction of a second late will be hardly noticeable.
I also support/like this. And while we're on that topic can I suggest that the heal ramp NOT be affected by self damage? Healing explosive jumpers with 45hp/s during set up(or to get into battle, after spawn, faster) would help with carrying more players. Don't think that is broken since the pocket(s) is still limited to the medic's speed.
While playing around with the heal ramp, I found a big issue; uber was gained based on time(also taking into account whether any healing was going on) and not amount healed. This meant healing a recently damaged demo gave me a lot more uber than healing a demo who was damaged more than 7 seconds ago (3 times as much!).
Something I recently saw in v2.3.7, and later checked in v2.4, was that an explosion is capable of affecting the physics of another friendly projectile i.e I saw a blu demo and a blu soldier shoot their weapon, at about the same time and angle, and in mid-air I saw a explosion suddenly appear inside of the rocket, causing it to turn 45 deg. upwards; we had no demos and the rocket didn't switch team color. Don't see any benefits except making a rocket turn around a corner (that kind of coordination and teamwork rarely happens, but then again so does this "bug"). Should this be removed?
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I can only do so much, be patient. I'll push that commit to github as soon as I have some time available after I get home from work. It's not too difficult to change. I just need to adjust 2 variables to mess around with the heal ramp (or even adjust the base healing rate if it's deemed too low overall).
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Lobby's down, but you should still be able to manually connect to my server at 24.36.98.140
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Current: 15hp/s for 4 seconds, heal rate increases by 10hp/s every sec over 3 seconds, 45hp/s
This: 15hp/s for 1 second, heal rate increases by 5hp/s every sec over 2 seconds, 25hp/s for 4 seconds, 45hp/s.
Basically instead of waiting for a long time then getting a really fast and high ramp up, you get a decently fast and high ramp up very quickly. A 4 second wait time is too long for heals to only start increasing, but you don't need 45hp/s heals either. This compliments gg2's fast pace by ramping up quickly during short breaks, and rewarding constant pressure. One second is a long enough interval for every class to attack except sniper, but really being a fraction of a second late will be hardly noticeable.
I also support/like this. And while we're on that topic can I suggest that the heal ramp NOT be affected by self damage? Healing explosive jumpers with 45hp/s during set up(or to get into battle, after spawn, faster) would help with carrying more players. Don't think that is broken since the pocket(s) is still limited to the medic's speed.
While playing around with the heal ramp, I found a big issue; uber was gained based on time(also taking into account whether any healing was going on) and not amount healed. This meant healing a recently damaged demo gave me a lot more uber than healing a demo who was damaged more than 7 seconds ago (3 times as much!).
Something I recently saw in v2.3.7, and later checked in v2.4, was that an explosion is capable of affecting the physics of another friendly projectile i.e I saw a blu demo and a blu soldier shoot their weapon, at about the same time and angle, and in mid-air I saw a explosion suddenly appear inside of the rocket, causing it to turn 45 deg. upwards; we had no demos and the rocket didn't switch team color. Don't see any benefits except making a rocket turn around a corner (that kind of coordination and teamwork rarely happens, but then again so does this "bug"). Should this be removed?
That has actually been there for a long time. Against enemy projectiles don't really see a point to it, but it's not bad either. Against friendlies it's pretty pointless.
If you want to expand on that mechanic i'd suggest it making the rocket destroy rather than reflect (against enemies).
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I re-uploaded the beta with fixed lobby, please download again from the link in the first post.
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Has vanilla been updated yet?
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I'm working on it.
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New vanilla version is out.
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New vanilla version is out.
Hurray :woot:
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Good.
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There seem to be several servers which just don't show up because they don't seem to be reachable. I checked some of the IPs from my pc and couldn't connect either. Are people really so bad at port forwarding that only one server out of six or so actually manages? Or is something else going on?
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Cool, my request actually got put into the game! :wuv:
mine too :z6: :z6:
which one was yours?
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Current: 15hp/s for 4 seconds, heal rate increases by 10hp/s every sec over 3 seconds, 45hp/s
This: 15hp/s for 1 second, heal rate increases by 5hp/s every sec over 2 seconds, 25hp/s for 4 seconds, 45hp/s.
Basically instead of waiting for a long time then getting a really fast and high ramp up, you get a decently fast and high ramp up very quickly. A 4 second wait time is too long for heals to only start increasing, but you don't need 45hp/s heals either. This compliments gg2's fast pace by ramping up quickly during short breaks, and rewarding constant pressure. One second is a long enough interval for every class to attack except sniper, but really being a fraction of a second late will be hardly noticeable.
I also support/like this. And while we're on that topic can I suggest that the heal ramp NOT be affected by self damage? Healing explosive jumpers with 45hp/s during set up(or to get into battle, after spawn, faster) would help with carrying more players. Don't think that is broken since the pocket(s) is still limited to the medic's speed.
While playing around with the heal ramp, I found a big issue; uber was gained based on time(also taking into account whether any healing was going on) and not amount healed. This meant healing a recently damaged demo gave me a lot more uber than healing a demo who was damaged more than 7 seconds ago (3 times as much!).
It's like that in Team Fortress 2 as well.
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So, how does the new lobby determine which mod is which?
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So, how does the new lobby determine which mod is which?
Legacy Gang Garrison 2 version or mod
why does it have this, when Mew's says "OHU Mewmod"?
The new lobby code tries to figure out some of the server information for "legacy" game servers from the name, e.g. player count and current map. I updated that to understand a suffix of the form " - <modname>" after the player count now, since some mods are using that format, e.g. "[ctf_truefort] My Server [10/20] - OHU".
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YES....! does beta version update??
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So, the game doesn't know yet?
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So, the game doesn't know yet?
If you use the new lobby interface (port 29944), you include the game/mod name, version and URL in the registration packet that the server sends to the lobby every 30 seconds. I described the whole thing in some detail here (http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=30351.msg980063#msg980063).
YES....! does beta version update??
It was updated before the vanilla verison, just re-download. Maybe I should have made a new thread / version number for it, but I was very tired yesterday.
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Is that url, ect. found in the gmk, or defined by the server host?
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Is that url, ect. found in the gmk, or defined by the server host?
It's in the gmk, since it is supposed to be information about the game or mod.
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Why is it when I try to open the beta and even version 2.3.8, it says "The application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact application's support team for more information." Please help. This is the first time it happened.
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Why is it when I try to open the beta and even version 2.3.8, it says "The application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact application's support team for more information." Please help. This is the first time it happened.
Because you post your bug reports on the forum.
When you report on Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/gg2/+filebug), please add when exactly it happens: Directly after the fake Steam loading splash, or after the Faucet logo. The only real change between 2.3.7 and 2.3.8 besides the changed lobby hostname is that 2.3.8 is built with the new version of Faucet Networking, and it will be important for debugging whether this happens on loading the extension or on its first use.
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Idearz:
Could we have the uber percent shown in the middle of the uber bars( near the ammo hud and in 'healed by/healing:' bubble)? Just something I would like to see and would feel more polished. In addition, when you have 100% uber, the bars could be team colored(darker/lighter than the healing bubble of course) and/or flash slowly(like in Team fortress 2).
And for the place (in healing bubble), where the medic uber bar is shown, we could have a bar showing ammo for non-medic classes. I know you can see teammates' ammo in Lorgan's PL but these things need to be standardized.
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Idearz:
Could we have the uber percent shown in the middle of the uber bars( near the ammo hud and in 'healed by/healing:' bubble)? Just something I would like to see and would feel more polished. In addition, when you have 100% uber, the bars could be team colored(darker/lighter than the healing bubble of course) and/or flash slowly(like in Team fortress 2).
And for the place (in healing bubble), where the medic uber bar is shown, we could have a bar showing ammo for non-medic classes. I know you can see teammates' ammo in Lorgan's PL but these things need to be standardized.
We're in a feature freeze at the moment. Our focus is polishing what we have for release.
However, that doesn't mean that features can't be foreplanned for future patches. Use Feature Requests if you want to get your idea better noticed.
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give deto an eyepatch
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give deto an eyepatch
I just realized that he doesn't have one.
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its literally 1 pixel.
(http://i.imgur.com/wkmte.png)
mite b cool
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Why is it when I try to open the beta and even version 2.3.8, it says "The application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact application's support team for more information." Please help. This is the first time it happened.
Because you post your bug reports on the forum.
When you report on Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/gg2/+filebug), please add when exactly it happens: Directly after the fake Steam loading splash, or after the Faucet logo. The only real change between 2.3.7 and 2.3.8 besides the changed lobby hostname is that 2.3.8 is built with the new version of Faucet Networking, and it will be important for debugging whether this happens on loading the extension or on its first use.
Oh sorry about that. And all I had to do was restart my computer. Again, really sorry.
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Demo-eyepatch. It should happen.
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Feature Freeze
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You mean that changing 12ish pixels is too much to ask?
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that really bothers me, it looks like his head is backwards
cannot unsee
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Damn it, nang.
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that really bothers me, it looks like his head is backwards
cannot unsee
I know what you mean, but I just cant see it.
but since you did see it I guess no demopatch :z7:
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A basic sprite change can make it into the game despite the feature freeze, it is, just one pixel after all
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Am I the only one who thinks blue flares look kind of weird? perhaps only the middle of the flare should be blue
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Decided to try recoloring the flare for blue, i dont think even one of these would work ingame.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/539/blueflare.png)
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6893/blueflare2.png)
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the third one isnt getting uploaded, i dunno why.
Just make the middle #00FFFF and the outline #0000FF.
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(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6893/blueflare2.png)
Pretty much that yeah.
Although I guess if you wanted it to look like it came out of the flamethrower you'd want to give it a purple hue instead...
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How about just leave it?
It's not like we have coloured rockets or bullets anyway.
Or do we?
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The long range weapons are team colored (mines, rockets, sniper shots). Makes sense to team color flares, but it would just seem odd if flames weren't as well.
also
current scheme:
(http://i.imgur.com/TyQCP.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/tLnkz.png)
alternate color scheme
(http://i.imgur.com/R5enG.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/t1Utu.png)
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I think a lighter blue would be a bit easier on the eyes for a flaring Pyro.
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I unno what you're talking about with it being easier on the eyes, but I guess it could match the red flare a bit better fU:~
very tedious
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but I guess it could match the red flare a bit better
That's what I meant. Didn't clarify :z4:
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Meh tbh I don't think you can get too much better than that. It's just the way the colors are :/
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I wish that, instead of worrying about eyepatches and projectiles, someone would bother remaking the Generator HUD so the shield's health meter would fit inside it too. I'm not artistic in the slightest, don't expect me to make it look nice if I must resort to making it myself.
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If its only an esthetic thing I can do it, unless it involves coding.
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If its only an esthetic thing I can do it, unless it involves coding.
*aesthetic
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If its only an esthetic thing I can do it, unless it involves coding.
*aesthetic
I just knew someone would bite me for this
"Aesthetics (also spelled æsthetics or esthetics)"
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someone would bother remaking the Generator HUD so the shield's health meter would fit inside it
I think that the picture of the generator should have a gray outline that fades away as the shield goes down. Would this be too hard to interpret for pubs?
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so, instead of focusing on one art thing, you want us to focus on another?
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No, I'm sorry. Just spitballing here.
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I was talking to psycho, tibbles.
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If someone uploads a screenshot of the gen hud I can do it in like 10 seconds :drool:
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I was talking to psycho, tibbles.
The thing is that the flare is already completely functional and easy to interpret as a flare
The gen HUD is crappily done as of now, because no one has yet bothered to finish it
I don't think anyone would mind not knowing for sure who shot a flare, yes it would be a nice leisure, but releasing a new version with an ugly looking HUD would make GG2 look unkempt and unpolished, and therefore the HUD should have a higher priority :y
just my 2¢
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So by the way, whatever happened to the idea where a person doing X damage to the gen would receive points?
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it wasn't even considered; Generator mode isn't just about damaging the generator
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If someone uploads a screenshot of the gen hud I can do it in like 10 seconds :drool:
yes, if someone could upload them that would be nice :c1:
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can't you guys just grab it from here? http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=26568.msg855304#msg855304 (http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=26568.msg855304#msg855304)
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wait here I've done the work for you
(https://github.com/Medo42/Gang-Garrison-2/raw/master/Source/gg2/Sprites/HUDs/GeneratorHUDS.images/image%200.png)
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I did some recolors, using BLU's gen as example.
In order: Both full shield, BLU down 25%, BLU down 50%, BLU down 75%, BLU totally down.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2nl9qnn.png)
How is this?
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can't you guys just grab it from here? http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=26568.msg855304#msg855304 (http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=26568.msg855304#msg855304)
I was looking through that, and I saw a menu background with a blue engineer. why isn't it used? its awesome
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it clashes badly.
I did some recolors, using BLU's gen as example.
In order: Both full shield, BLU down 25%, BLU down 50%, BLU down 75%, BLU totally down.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2nl9qnn.png)
How is this?
we don't want recolors, we want a redesign
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it clashes badly.
I did some recolors, using BLU's gen as example.
In order: Both full shield, BLU down 25%, BLU down 50%, BLU down 75%, BLU totally down.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2nl9qnn.png)
How is this?
we don't want recolors, we want a redesign
No, the recolors are for the shield around the gen. Just trying to offer a stylish(ish) way to present the shield.
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it could work, but I was kinda hoping that we'd move away from the awkward bow-tie setup we have going on right now, and be more consistent with the other huds
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There's already a health bar for the Generator and a health bar for the Generator shield. I need room on the HUD to render them both.
Do make note that the Generators themselves (complete with shields) are going to rendered in there too, so either make it a big rounded rectangle or come up with something new.
Also, I've heard complaints about the shield sprites: if you don't like em, redraw them and submit. If no one makes better ones, we're going with what we have now.
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can't you guys just grab it from here? http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=26568.msg855304#msg855304 (http://www.ganggarrison.com/forums/index.php?topic=26568.msg855304#msg855304)
The sprites are all on github, I just need to know how big to make it...
i can't run the beta right now so can someone just post a screenshot?
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nvm I got a screenshot. You want me to change the shape or just stretch the current?
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change the shape please
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to what
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Too late, I made it a rounded rectangle.
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So it suites the rolling rectangles which are found in other game modes, rather than the strange hourglass figure it has, but that's a personal request, if anything all you truly need to do is make it wider
oh well you snooze you lose
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uh idk what you are saying nang but I'm going to modify the intel hud to fit the gens
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(http://i.imgur.com/qXRsm.png)
well I did this, I don't know if you guys like, but I can do more variations
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(http://i.imgur.com/qXRsm.png)
well I did this, I don't know if you guys like, but I can do more variations
I like this, just ditch the bowtie shape..
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yes please
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How's this?
(http://i.imgur.com/PVS1J.png)
Im worried it might be too big
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A trapezoid, I like it. I think the size is just right.
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A trapezoid, I like it. I think the size is just right.
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Looks good.
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oh and the green is just a placeholder I suppose. right?
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You could have it green when full, yellow when taking damage, red when critical, and nothing for disabled.
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Did someone start working on an update poster yet?
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Not yet i believe, alltough i have been talking about that with elkondo.
does the update yet have a name?
You have to make a name for it. :S
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The Double Trouble update ?
also mmm might start doing a poster, but considering it goes live the 23rd :z4:
You could have it green when full, yellow when taking damage, red when critical, and nothing for disabled.
I think it was used as a transparency color to be erased in GM so they looks more like weapon-ish reload bars.
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Did someone start working on an update poster yet?
Elkondo's already started. I spoke with him before I went to sleep, he plans on wrapping it up today.
And I already told you my sentiments on a potential name: something that incorporates "Modern" or "Modest" into the name somehow.
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In the op there should be all the changes made. Such as what classes got buffed or nerfed.
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You can check github for the full changelog, I think psycho's (ASBenz) commits are the only ones which deal with class balance.
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The Double Trouble update ?
also mmm might start doing a poster, but considering it goes live the 23rd :z4:
great, team up with me and elkondo like last time?
More like, watch you two make the poster, then suggest some small thing when you're done and end up in the credits. :drool:
But indeed that would be cool. Maybe we can set up a scheme for the update ?
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You can check github for the full changelog, I think psycho's (ASBenz) commits are the only ones which deal with class balance.
Here is the relevant URL: https://github.com/Medo42/Gang-Garrison-2/compare/V2.3.8...master
This should show all the commits which have been made for 2.4. Merge commits can usually be ignored since they should not add any changes of their own. Sorry that I didn't provide a proper changelog myself, but I'd have to dig through that list as well to write it.
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firebug's c-zone is still a stupid piece of shit fuck piss dog boner
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Rocketman vs Pyro in 2.3, 60% pyro wins. Rocketman vs Pyro in 2.4, 90% pyro wins. Rocketmen have no chance anymore against pyros now. After 2.4 becomes official, imo pyros will replace soldiers in competitive matches. I hope this doesn't happen because soldier is what I main.
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Well, I am not good at balancing. What should be done to make pyro more balanced again? One popular idea is to make the flare curve again, but what else should be done?
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slow down rockets and make the airblast cone way shorter
gg2's rockets are like tf2's LL rockets, even with how the game's paced
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How are the firebug's other matchups?
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more fair than they were before the update
pyro was basically UP except to counter rockets and spies
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Rocketman vs Pyro in 2.3, 60% pyro wins. Rocketman vs Pyro in 2.4, 90% pyro wins. Rocketmen have no chance anymore against pyros now. After 2.4 becomes official, imo pyros will replace soldiers in competitive matches. I hope this doesn't happen because soldier is what I main.
idk what you are talking about. At point blank where reflects are more prediction rather than reaction, the problem is they are prediction. Don't press m2 within one or two frames of the exact time the soldier shoots, and there goes nearly half your health. Really if you're getting anywhere near half of your rockets reflected at point blank then you should make your shots less predictable.
At mid-long range where reflecting is easier, the problem is aiming them is difficult due to the shot origin not being consistent -- on soldier it always comes from the same point, when reflecting it starts wherever the rocket is when it's reflected -- plus rockets are pretty easy to dodge already. Rockets coming very rapidly are hard to dodge, but when reflecting you only reflect as fast (not really, it's even slower) as the opposing soldier shoots. So the solution is to stop feeding the pyro easy reflects.
Basically the only place reflects are reliable and anywhere close to being too powerful is in a range that's not a core part of playing soldier. You can definitely still be effective without having to spam rockets from far away. And the only change that really affected the soldier pyro matchup was the lowered blastReloadTime. It's still slower than the rocket fire rate, so really it only helped mid-long range reflects since now you can reflect consecutive rockets with less backpeddling. But the solution is still to stop feeding easy reflects.
Also pyro won't replace soldier since the soldier feeding the pyro is what (might) make him useful enough to be used full time. If both sides are running pyro then no one is feeding rockets which means the heavies are just going to mow down the pyros. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyways as far as airblast cooldown goes, I'd be okay with it being increased to 40 frames (+5 from current beta, -10 from current official), but any more is dumb. Although I still don't think it needs to be changed.
Sort of edit: I'd be okay with the reflect range being made a bit shorter. Is that blastDistance? Or is that for just against players?
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slow down rockets and make the airblast cone way shorter
gg2's rockets are like tf2's LL rockets, even with how the game's paced
Slow down the second? slowest projectile in the game? ???
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At some point projectile stops being "takes skill to predict" and turns into "close your eyes and shoot".
I think it's fine currently. Besides slowing them down just makes reflects easier, and we're talking about it being too easy (but it's not).
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I always felt like rockets were ~slightly~ too fast for gg2's pace, and that they could be slowed down a hair. Like, the difference between pyro and engie, or something.
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Removed f10 from exiting the game? D:
How am I supposed to properly ragequit now? D:
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alt f4
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alt f4
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I think rockets are fine the way they are now; they're already pretty easy to dodge. I guess if they tried slowing down rockets a bit then we could see if it breaks the class against some other classes, but as of now I think that slowing them down would just hamper the rocketman when he's trying to predict where the target is going to go.
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Have you ever played a real FPS with rockets?
Did you ever get good enough to make direct hits against people?
If you didn't answer yes to both these questions, you don't get to talk about rocketman's balance in terms of hitting people.
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Yes.
Yes.
Now can we see whether or not implementing it in-game will make it have a huge impact on the class as a whole?
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Maybe put it in public beta and schedule with forumers when to test slower rockets.
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make the flare curve again
make the airblast cone way shorter
I think these two changes would help.
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make the flare curve again
make the airblast cone way shorter
I think these two changes would help.
YES.
But Wareya thinks flare will be too hard to aim if it's curved. :drool:
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herp derp projectiles in a game where every weapon is projectiles already
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Compensating for gravity is already a base requirement for more than half of the guns in this game, I really don't think curving the flare is going to make the pyro too difficult.
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I would think curving flares as a small buff for those who bother to "learn" the curve fy:
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That's actually part of why it's a bad idea
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The reason you said you didn't want it is because it was too hard for you and psycho to aim 7:y
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I don't think the idea of curving the flare was ever to "nerf" it, just skill-index it.
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Don't slow down rockets.
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Also yeah, slowing down rockets is a stupid idea.
You could do it for experimentation, sure, but I don't think anyone will learn anything from it other than the fact that it's a stupid idea. But maybe that's just me.
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Curved flare isn't too hard to aim but i'd prefere a straight flare. I dunno' why.
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If you slowed down rockets, in my opinion runners will dance you like its nothing. Also Trog, a pyro would crush a 1v1 battle against a soldier, a pyro would just reflect a soldiers rocket and shoot a flare at the same time 80+ damage right there, do that one more time or just charge in and get hit by one rocket and your job is done as a pyro. Also about what I meant when pyros will replace a soldier in competitve 4v4 matches is that at :x11: :x13: :x14: :x16: vs :x21: :x22: :x24 :x26:. The blue team is likely to win. Because all the pyro would have to do is just reflect rockets and shoot out flares, while the rocketman would do negative to the team.
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you completely missed everything else I said
and blue doesn't seem to understand that psycho having trouble aiming something is a big deal
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Where it's easy to reflect rockets it's also easy to dodge them. You're not going to hit both the flare and the rocket at the same time, they don't even start in the same place. If you manage to get hit by both it's most likely you doing something stupid rather than the pyro being some sort of god. Although I do admit doing both at the same time makes it easier to hit with something.
And if you got reflected at close range then that's your fault for being predictable.
In the 4v4 matchup, the only stuff the pyro can reliably reflect is you spamming from far away. He only has as much power with the reflects as you give him, he can't rocket jump to stop scouts or bomb players, he goes down easily to heavies, and he can't reliably reflect your rockets when you're fighting him or another player at close range. It's definitely not impossible to overcome, but in some places it might be a possible full time alternative, and I don't see anything wrong that.
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Say that to Psycho having trouble aiming it at a distance.
I think it's okay that you can't hit stuff at a distance. It really shouldn't be that great outside of midish range.
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hey trog have you ever play tf2's pyro
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Leave pyro alone! (in chris crocker voice)
Oh, and solly, too. I think they're good atm.
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hey trog have you ever play tf2's pyro
no
Does it matter? In tf2 it still curves...
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hey trog have you ever play tf2's pyro
no
Does it matter? In tf2 it still curves...
yes, it matters
it's the least curving projectile in the game and it's easy to hit people across the entire map with it because of that
curving it in gg2 doesn't have the same effect
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But then I can't curve over crates :z3:
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hey trog have you ever play tf2's pyro
no
Does it matter? In tf2 it still curves...
yes, it matters
it's the least curving projectile in the game and it's easy to hit people across the entire map with it because of that
curving it in gg2 doesn't have the same effect
People across the map who are standing still...
Saying curving is bullshit is like saying projectiles are bullshit. You still have to compensate for distance, enemy movement etc. You just have to do it a bit differently. I'm sure if you actually tried aiming a bit higher you could hit stuff, it's really not that hard.
Or we could just make bullets hitscan. That would be interesting fU:~
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hey trog have you ever play tf2's pyro
no
Does it matter? In tf2 it still curves...
yes, it matters
it's the least curving projectile in the game and it's easy to hit people across the entire map with it because of that
curving it in gg2 doesn't have the same effect
People across the map who are standing still...
--No, ones who are moving. But you wouldn't know that.
Saying curving is bullshit is like saying projectiles are bullshit. You still have to compensate for distance, enemy movement etc. You just have to do it a bit differently. I'm sure if you actually tried aiming a bit higher you could hit stuff, it's really not that hard.
--But that's wrong, assumptive about me, and completely misses the fucking point..
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Curve, aiming in 3D = hitting people across the map
Slightly more curve, aiming in 2D = bullshit
???
Also it seems the point is aiming curved flares is bullshit, although there really hasn't been much explanation for why outside of "me and psycho say so".
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>Let's skill index the flare!
>becomes impossible for the best pyro to use in the intended way
The biggest strafing motion in tf2 is along the horizontal axis, while the curve is (gasp) only vertical!
In gg2 it's vertical, as is the curve. That has extremely stupid consequences, putting strafing on the same dimensions as a dynamic aspect of a weapon intended for precision long range picking. It makes using it as anything but spam stupid.
Also, the flare should have half the refire rate of the airblast.
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Also, the flare should have half the refire rate of the airblast.
This. There's no penalty for using the flare as opporsed to the airblast. That could be a good consequence for using it.
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a curving flare isn't any harder to hit than a curving revolver bullet. it's fucking easy.
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a curving flare isn't any harder to hit than a curving revolver bullet. it's fucking easy.
this.
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>Let's skill index the flare!
>becomes impossible for the best pyro to use in the intended way
The biggest strafing motion in tf2 is along the horizontal axis, while the curve is (gasp) only vertical!
In gg2 it's vertical, as is the curve. That has extremely stupid consequences, putting strafing on the same dimensions as a dynamic aspect of a weapon intended for precision long range picking. It makes using it as anything but spam stupid.
Also, the flare should have half the refire rate of the airblast.
Uh you still jump to dodge it whether it curves or not, it's not really more or less difficult either way.
Also, the flare should have half the refire rate of the airblast.
This. There's no penalty for using the flare as opporsed to the airblast. That coul be a good consequence for using it.
Pretty sure half the refire rate = twice as fast.
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Also, the flare should have half the refire rate of the airblast.
This. There's no penalty for using the flare as opporsed to the airblast. That coul be a good consequence for using it.
Pretty sure half the refire rate = twice as fast.
Halved rate = twice as slow.
Halved speed = twice as slow.
Halved time = twice as fast.
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hm nvm then
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you completely missed everything else I said
and blue doesn't seem to understand that psycho having trouble aiming something is a big deal
I guess I can aim flares better than psychopath then.
Seriously dude, it's not hard.
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Wait, when have I gotten to play between now and April? :drool:
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It doesn't matter really, Wareya can't aim and is trying to use you as a blanket for "all players that are de bess at aiming"
Obviously many people in this thread have no problem aiming a curved flare, so I don't see why he's using it as a reason why it should not be implemented =/
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you're /completely/ throwing away everything else I said about it
jesus christ
The biggest strafing motion in tf2 is along the horizontal axis, while the curve is (gasp) only vertical!
In gg2 it's vertical, as is the curve. That has extremely stupid consequences, putting strafing on the same dimensions as a dynamic aspect of a weapon intended for precision long range picking. It makes using it as anything but spam stupid.
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you're /completely/ throwing away everything else I said about it
jesus christ
The biggest strafing motion in tf2 is along the horizontal axis, while the curve is (gasp) only vertical!
In gg2 it's vertical, as is the curve. That has extremely stupid consequences, putting strafing on the same dimensions as a dynamic aspect of a weapon intended for precision long range picking. It makes using it as anything but spam stupid.
but what you said is wrong and it is easy as shit to aim?
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I actually liked how the flare was in the 2.4 beta when I played it...
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you're /completely/ throwing away everything else I said about it
jesus christ
The biggest strafing motion in tf2 is along the horizontal axis, while the curve is (gasp) only vertical!
In gg2 it's vertical, as is the curve. That has extremely stupid consequences, putting strafing on the same dimensions as a dynamic aspect of a weapon intended for precision long range picking. It makes using it as anything but spam stupid.
but what you said is wrong and it is easy as shit to aim?
it's not about aiming
it's about dodging
I think the fact that I talked about strafing should have said something about that
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The flare isn't designed for "precision long range picking", it's designed for applying pressure and finishing injured foes in a range the firebug previously had no jurisdiction over. If what you said was really true, then the flare should either do more damage or have an even greater projectile speed.
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you're /completely/ throwing away everything else I said about it
jesus christ
The biggest strafing motion in tf2 is along the horizontal axis, while the curve is (gasp) only vertical!
In gg2 it's vertical, as is the curve. That has extremely stupid consequences, putting strafing on the same dimensions as a dynamic aspect of a weapon intended for precision long range picking. It makes using it as anything but spam stupid.
but what you said is wrong and it is easy as shit to aim?
it's not about aiming
it's about dodging
I think the fact that I talked about strafing should have said something about that
The affect of the curve on dodging is miniscule. If anything it makes it harder to dodge since you have to take into account the curve when you choose to jump. But your argument is it's bullshit to aim, not to dodge, so i unno what you are saying.
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I never stated that it was bullshit to aim, just to use and hit competent players
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it's 1000% less bullshit to aim.
in response to "How does straight flares make firebug better?"
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Trog ninja'd me.
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But still, "If anything it makes it harder to dodge since you have to take into account the curve when you choose to jump."
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Official release is tomorrow right? Is the poster done?
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But still, "If anything it makes it harder to dodge since you have to take into account the curve when you choose to jump."
But, that's wrong, still. It curving makes it so that it's easier to dodge because you ~can~ take it into account, moving left or right more easily when it's at a vertical angle. This is about airshots, not shooting on planes or downhill.
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But still, "If anything it makes it harder to dodge since you have to take into account the curve when you choose to jump."
But, that's wrong, still. It curving makes it so that it's easier to dodge because you ~can~ take it into account, moving left or right more easily when it's at a vertical angle. This is about airshots, not shooting on planes or downhill.
But again, this is assuming that the flare was designed to single out opponents at range, which I honestly don't think is the case. The flare is for harassment and suppression in areas where the firebug otherwise isn't strong, and if someone has to move in a specific direction in order to avoid the flare, then technically it's still filling its role by provoking a response. I'd also much rather have it be able to curve around corners for pretty much this same reason: to be able to hit people around corners.
Besides, this whole "which is easier to dodge" thing seems awfully situational, and almost too miniscule of a difference to really matter. Can we just solidify the role of the flare and work from there?
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But still, "If anything it makes it harder to dodge since you have to take into account the curve when you choose to jump."
But, that's wrong, still. It curving makes it so that it's easier to dodge because you ~can~ take it into account, moving left or right more easily when it's at a vertical angle. This is about airshots, not shooting on planes or downhill.
But then strafing is horizontal and not on the same dimension as flare curve so it's like tf2??
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But still, "If anything it makes it harder to dodge since you have to take into account the curve when you choose to jump."
But, that's wrong, still. It curving makes it so that it's easier to dodge because you ~can~ take it into account, moving left or right more easily when it's at a vertical angle. This is about airshots, not shooting on planes or downhill.
But then strafing is horizontal and not on the same dimension as flare curve so it's like tf2??
the flare curve is along a 2d plane
the strafing in gg2 is on a 1d axis that is part of that plane
the strafing in tf2 is on a 1d axis that is perpendicular to that plane
I would know what the flare is supposed to be for, blue, I'm the fucking designer.
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I think rebel coded it originally...
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I was the first one to propose the idea.
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I may have proposed it in private, but regardless I'm the reason it made it in anyways. I made a counter-proposition of airblasting all projectiles with a damage bonus, but it was decided against in the long run.
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I would know what the flare is supposed to be for, blue, I'm the fucking designer.
Well, if the flare is for long range precision elimination, then by all means, keep the trajectory straight.
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It's already designed to be less than useful if you hit someone who isn't already burning with it, so yeah.
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I was the first one to propose the idea.
I am pretty sure I (and others as well) already said in 08 that pyro needs something to deal some longrange damage since he is buttfuck useless there.
The thought was more of a flare gun than airbursting flames, but the endresult is the same.
Well, not that I play anymore anyways. The (from what I hear, like I will test/look into the source) 30 damage flamebursts sound pretty OP anyways to me.
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its 25 fU:~
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that's why they should not have the same refire rate as the airblast
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dude. you can jump to dodge too, and you retain full air control during a jump unlike in TF2. i'm not getting this "1-dimensional strafe to dodge bullshit" that makes curved trajectories suddenly undesirable.
revolver bullets have a curved trajectory, and they're not that hard to dodge at mid-long range. if anything, the speed of the projectile plays the biggest role. a straight flare versus a curved flare is irrelevant because the flare itself isn't as fast as a revolver bullet, nor should it be.
anytime someone is on the ground and are able to jump (also depending on their position), they always have three options to dodge, and in two axes: move left/right, jump, or don't jump. dodging flares is the same as dodging any other projectile. the slower the projectile is (flare), the easier it is for that player to react and dodge. curved trajectories doesn't change this at all.
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congratulations, you just argued for my point
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no i didn't. i'm saying that your 1-dimensional strafing thing is bullshit and a stupid reason to base any argument off of because it's straight up incorrect. ::)
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No, you're missing my fucking point completely and just argued in favour of it without realizing it.
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the flare curve is along a 2d plane
the strafing in gg2 is on a 1d axis that is part of that plane
dodging is a product of movement in any direction on a 2d plane. if you totally ignore the fact that you can move up and down to dodge, then yes dodging is 1-dimensional
the strafing in tf2 is on a 1d axis that is perpendicular to that plane
I would know what the flare is supposed to be for, blue, I'm the fucking designer.
But still, "If anything it makes it harder to dodge since you have to take into account the curve when you choose to jump."
But, that's wrong, still. It curving makes it so that it's easier to dodge because you ~can~ take it into account, moving left or right more easily when it's at a vertical angle. This is about airshots, not shooting on planes or downhill.
If I'm unintentionally arguing for what you're saying, then this wouldn't apply. Curving does not make it easier or harder to dodge, because I argue that the main factor in dodging is the speed of the projectile. The time between when the player notices and reacts to a shot is more important (aka the speed) than the path the shot takes.
Projectiles going in a straight trajectory also makes it easier to dodge because you ~can~ take it into account. Any and all projectiles whose position can be predicted over a period of time can be easy to dodge. For instance, a rocket coming straight at you from a quarter screen away can be dodged because you know it's going to hit you in half a second, and then jump over it. Likewise, a rocket shooting over your head can be predicted and dodged by not jumping.
Your point about dodging vertical angled projectiles is moot because it's easy to dodge anything coming from above or below. This is because of the relative speed of the character perpendicular to the projectile though, and not because of the curved trajectory itself. A straight trajectory projectile coming from a vertical angle would be just as easy to dodge.
my argument in a nutshell:
Uh you still jump to dodge it whether it curves or not, it's not really more or less difficult either way.
Hope that helps.
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but he said
This is about airshots
out of the blue so everything is somehow irrelevant except not really since the same concept still applies. You still strafe to dodge it whether it curves or not