INSmod | Version 1.28.1 ex | Now with CHAT and CONSOLE

[Killah Zillah]

They were even shittier when people (usually Craz) would hold M1 and try to run in and pizza slice their way to victory. It's a niche attack for enemies underneath you, spychecking occasionally, and if you suck at hitting your regular slashes because it has a big hitbox.

Making things easier to play is not equivalent to making them better. All of their problems are based around them being melee-only classes in a game filled with ranged classes. Which is hilarious, because I keep on subtly buffing their block hoping that people actually use it, but no one does. I guess no one read the changelog where I added Just Defend...

I'm probably going to switch out the pizza slicer for something else, because I'm not quite satisfied with how it works.

tl;dr - don't complain about classes you aren't even playing correctly.

Making them easier to play directly influences how fun they are. I could list a thousand games that had unfun or overly complicated controls that were an absolute nightmare to play and failed exactly and solely because of their controls. The controls have to be easy to get into or they'll go unused. If they're overly complicated, most people won't have fun playing them. If their abilities aren't immediately apparent and easy to work with, most people simply won't use those abilities. Again, this is why hardly anyone uses Xan's dash, or as Dusty mentioned, the Illusionists special abilities. As for why people would slice their way to victory, it's because most enemies are jumping and hopping around you so they DON'T allow you to use the normal attack, so you can't just sit still on the ground and hope they'll stay still long enough for that to work. The normal attack works best against slow, large targets like Sani and Vein, but it's hard to do even that because you're fighting normal people who're aiming their guns at you. Jumping around them makes it harder for them to keep a solid aim on you, as we both know.

If you want to make the slicer less used, nerf it in a way that you can SEE! You could try making the slicer only spin twice rather than purpetually, which would force you to use a normal attack the moment you land! That would satisfy both sides, where the controls are more fluent while also forcing you to use the more powerful standing attack as well.

As for blocking, slowing the player that much for a class that COOOONSTANTLY has to close gaps makes people feel like it's not really worth it and would rather dance and bumrush as fast as they can. Even if it really is the most effective means of defence, you can't blame people for going with what feels the easiest and most effective. Refer to the Xan and Illusionist examples. Given time, maybe they'll learn to use it, but at the moment it just doesn't feel very fun or useful. You said you've got plans for them, so I can't argue against how useful blocking really is, all I can say is why I believe people aren't using it. What I CAN argue is how useful an easily accessible mid-air attack is, and how making things easier to understand makes them more fun!

[Dusty]

God damnit I want to do so much with the illusionist but I know it would be too much. The Illusionist is supposed to be a protagonist to a game, so transfering him to a balanced team based game is annoying at times, because if I put in more of his abilities, he would be either overpowered or too complicated. I think the most abilities any class has is 4, maybe 5.

[Mew!]

Hosting.

[CrazNoDale]

Hosting.

Beware of errors

[RebelINS]

Your appraisal of Xan's dash ability is wrong. Any good player playing him knows how and when to use his dash. It's easy and pretty intuitive to use on the Space Bar.

I appreciate the concern, but I'm not about to make kneejerk buffs based on what people perceive as a more "fun" or "easy" way to play the class.

The fun/easy way to play would be to rush in with dashes and try to hit them. If I added buffs based around that playstyle, they'd have more hp, more defense, or could dash more often. I'm sure you'd all love that, but that sucks all the skill out of the class. For me, fun isn't about how easy the class is to play, but it is how the class's skills scale to your own skills. The ceiling for a braindead version of the Samurais (ie. the first iteration where the pizza slicer did retardedly high damage and had hitstun), is hold m1 and dash. I want the ceiling for the class to be more mobility, strategy and timing based.

If you haven't noticed, they already have good mobility and defensive options. You can approach from different angles, you can dash and block, block then dash, etc. They can catch up to and approach classes from angles they can't attack you at. Blocking projectiles makes you take 25% of that damage, and Just Defending it means you take a whopping 0 damage.

[CrazNoDale]

Your appraisal of Xan's dash ability is wrong. Any good player playing him knows how and when to use his dash. It's easy and pretty intuitive to use on the Space Bar.

I appreciate the concern, but I'm not about to make kneejerk buffs based on what people perceive as a more "fun" or "easy" way to play the class.

The fun/easy way to play would be to rush in with dashes and try to hit them. If I added buffs based around that playstyle, they'd have more hp, more defense, or could dash more often. I'm sure you'd all love that, but that sucks all the skill out of the class. For me, fun isn't about how easy the class is to play, but it is how the class's skills scale to your own skills. The ceiling for a braindead version of the Samurais (ie. the first iteration where the pizza slicer did retardedly high damage and had hitstun), is hold m1 and dash. I want the ceiling for the class to be more mobility, strategy and timing based.

If you haven't noticed, they already have good mobility and defensive options. You can approach from different angles, you can dash and block, block then dash, etc. They can catch up to and approach classes from angles they can't attack you at. Blocking projectiles makes you take 25% of that damage, and Just Defending it means you take a whopping 0 damage.

High damage? I thought it was like 30dps, but okay. Also whats the point in that when you don't even get a chance to hit them

[RebelINS]

You don't even know what you're talking about. The first version of the pizza slicer had a hitstun + hitbox overlap that caused enemies to get stuck inside indefinitely. It was a touch of death kill against anyone you hit.

You guys need to be stop being so salty about a class that is incomplete because you're playing them in a way that is ineffective. ffs, either wait until they're complete, or try using their block before making generalizations about how underpowered they are.

[Dusty]

Hm, should the lifelink be able to borrow ubers too? you'd have to latch on before the uber is popped though.

[Tetriole]

Quick question though, how many people actually enjoy playing as the illusionist? I ask because I'll see people playing as their own characters (vein to vein, KZ to KZ), and then I'll be off playing pipboy...

I enjoy playing as the Illusionist And holy shit that sprite for the face in the corner (sorry, a bit tired, don't know what it's called) is ugly.

[Madness9001]

Techo,when i summoned a void knight on a mew while he was kicking the ball
suddenly

Code:

___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Collision Event with object VoidKnight
for object MeleeHitbox:

Creating instance for non-existing object: -1

Also,on Mew server

Code:

___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Begin Step Event
for object Spectator:

Error in code at line 1:
   if global.myself.object != -1 instance_destroy();
                   ^
at position 18: Unknown variable object

[Dusty]

tetriole, is it the new one, old one or both?

[Killah Zillah]

Your appraisal of Xan's dash ability is wrong. Any good player playing him knows how and when to use his dash. It's easy and pretty intuitive to use on the Space Bar.

I appreciate the concern, but I'm not about to make kneejerk buffs based on what people perceive as a more "fun" or "easy" way to play the class.

The fun/easy way to play would be to rush in with dashes and try to hit them. If I added buffs based around that playstyle, they'd have more hp, more defense, or could dash more often. I'm sure you'd all love that, but that sucks all the skill out of the class. For me, fun isn't about how easy the class is to play, but it is how the class's skills scale to your own skills. The ceiling for a braindead version of the Samurais (ie. the first iteration where the pizza slicer did retardedly high damage and had hitstun), is hold m1 and dash. I want the ceiling for the class to be more mobility, strategy and timing based.

If you haven't noticed, they already have good mobility and defensive options. You can approach from different angles, you can dash and block, block then dash, etc. They can catch up to and approach classes from angles they can't attack you at. Blocking projectiles makes you take 25% of that damage, and Just Defending it means you take a whopping 0 damage.

That's a good point, I forgot that you moved that to space bar.. but that's an example of a change to the controls that make it easier on the hands and allow more freedom and fun, is it not?

I understand that you aren't about to go into changing anything without going into detail, I wouldn't either, bending to the will of the masses SOLELY because they say so isn't fair to you as a creator! It's like how people keep asking me to add new characters to Sci-Fi mod without explaining why I should go through AAAAAALL that trouble for that one thing. You're of course free to excersize your right as the creator to not listen to a word anyone's saying to you, but I'd strongly recommend you give this a chance first. You said you prefer more challenge, but that's merely what you prefer, and that's irrelevant. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, what you personally like isn't as important when it hampers game flow. Not everyone likes playing on Hard mode, and all your suggestions (adding a bit more health, adding more mobility, more defence options) to be honest, sounds exactly like what the class could use right now to be more fun to play for the majority without being too overpowered. I'm not calling you selfish, I understand you were just explaining why you're making them the way you are, I'm merely saying that personal preference alone should have no bearing when it comes to making something for an audience. I'm a little worried I might be getting on your nerves by talking about this further.. I just really think it's worth talking about since so many people dislike them.

They can approach from any angle, but if it's not fun to do that, then that ability won't be used! It's as simple as that, telling people it's super effective won't mean much if they aren't having fun doing it, and when dash is your main means of getting around, making it a pain to use it to get higher levels outside of combat is a pain.

[Vein]

Hey, I liked the old Illusionist.  His void knights were awesome and extremely effective against specific enemies like Sani, Shepard, Xan, and Tassadar.

I also use Dash when playing Xan or Slain.  I just don't use those two characters that much because they feel too powerful and thus not as fun.

You can speak for other people when you say that you don't use all the moves but don't speak for me.

[Madness9001]

Anoter erro.
Was melkfok at time.

Code:

___________________________________________
ERROR in
action number 1
of Collision Event with object MojoArmor
for object MeleeHitbox:

Creating instance for non-existing object: -1

[Dusty]

Hum, perhaps I'll add a selector for the void spells then. You aren't the only one who doesn't want the void knights to go.