Fixing spy

[Agh]

Theres a big difference between spending 30 seconds running around the map, getting behind the enemy, getting into the right position and on the other hand spending 30 seconds waiting for the cloak to recharge, while being of little use and very vulnerable.

Making the recharge this slow is out of question, because it would make the spy literally useless for half its time.

[zhengman777]

Theres a big difference between spending 30 seconds running around the map, getting behind the enemy, getting into the right position and on the other hand spending 30 seconds waiting for the cloak to recharge, while being of little use and very vulnerable.

Making the recharge this slow is out of question, because it would make the spy literally useless for half its time.

Say you spend the entire 45 seconds running around the map as a cloaked spy. You reach the opponent's base in 30 seconds (very much possible, as most dropped-intel rescues can be reached within the 30 seconds the intel timer allots). You'd still have 15 seconds to plan your path to the intel. Grab it. Run.

Say you're playing more aggressively. You wouldn't need all 45 seconds to find an opponent. Uncloak and shoot, or attempt a backstab. When playing aggressively, you wouldn't constantly be cloaked, thereby saving the energy for the short bursts needed to escape or reposition yourself.

Both scenarios should get people to play the spy more cleverly.

I totally understand what you're saying, though. This is still all very situational. I'd like to think that the sapper/buffs will make it easier to get into a more favorable position within 45 seconds, but there are some unforseeable instances where even a skilled spy gets put at a large disadvantage. Would you agree to doubling the regen rate? That'd mean a 15-second regen.

I don't know. Argh. We could spend all day arguing perfectly valid points. I'd say that it's at least worth a shot. We can quickly remove the feature if it doesn't do anything to improve the game.

[Rommel]

Limiting cloak does not make a person perform more cleverly or make them better at spy

[Starky]

We can quickly remove the feature if it doesn't do anything to improve the game.

Or you could test it as a mod or in a beta.

[♫Sani Sani Disco♫]

Limiting cloak does not make a person perform more cleverly or make them better at spy

It makes them conserve their cloak for when they need it, as opposed to running around with little to no risk at all.

[L]

So this went from fixing the spy to stopping failspies?

[♫Sani Sani Disco♫]

Pretty much yeah

[L]

hm i think it strayed off the original intent of this topic then.

I mean there's always going to be fail (class) in game.

[CandleJack]

hm i think it strayed off the original intent of this topic then.

I mean there's always going to be fail (class) in game.

It's technically on topic because the methods to fix the spy will make it more popular so they have to nerf it a little I suppose

[L]

The sapper?

Maybe it might make it a bit popular but what the sapper will do is what you can do now basically.

I think it seems to be a big nerf for a small buff of a sapper.

[♫Sani Sani Disco♫]

Unless you could like, throw the sappers or something, it would be more like a nerf. With the backstab, you have a slim chance of taking out the Engie, too. With the Sapper, you're fucked when the engie notices your presence.

Just throwing that out there.

That was toward people who think it's a buff btw

[L]

Were not the ideas to make the sapper placeable while cloaked too?

[zhengman777]

Limiting cloak does not make a person perform more cleverly or make them better at spy

It makes them conserve their cloak for when they need it, as opposed to running around with little to no risk at all.

This. People don't seem to be understanding this.

Unless you could like, throw the sappers or something, it would be more like a nerf. With the backstab, you have a slim chance of taking out the Engie, too. With the Sapper, you're fucked when the engie notices your presence.

First of all, I thought we were agreeing that the backstab would supersede the sapper if the engie is in the sentry's hitbox.

Second, the sapper allows the spy to effectively render a sentry useless without the engie noticing and riddling the spy with shotgun rounds. Not only does this extend a spy's life, but when the spy's team comes around and - surprise! - the sentry isn't working, the engineer will be quickly overtaken. A definite buff.

Were not the ideas to make the sapper placeable while cloaked too?

Er, yeah. Another idea would be to give the spy several frames of visibility when placing a sapper (like an automatic cloak/decloak, similar to the backstab animation), so that a campingie would have to check on his sentry pretty frequently if he wants to spot a spy sappin' his sentry.

[Rommel]

Not like an engineer would notice autogun hp dropping or anything

[Clairefox]

Not like an engineer would notice autogun hp dropping or anything

idk, i never notice the engineer screaming SPY SAPPIN MAH SENTRY in tf2 personally