General Engie Changes

[trog]

I don't think anybody wants stronger sentries, and teleporters with 3 seconds recharges would break ctf if teleporters in general don't.

And ya I know TF2 has the homewrecker. I think we can all agree that it's a pretty terrible weapon.

[CandleJack]

I don't think anybody wants stronger sentries, and teleporters with 3 seconds recharges would break ctf if teleporters in general don't.

And ya I know TF2 has the homewrecker. I think we can all agree that it's a pretty terrible weapon.

Half of the pyro unlocks were terrible anyways. And the normals are getting worse due to these nerfs. Good thing they're not nerfing the airblast though

[ThermalInferno]

I don't think anybody wants stronger sentries, and teleporters with 3 seconds recharges would break ctf if teleporters in general don't.

And ya I know TF2 has the homewrecker. I think we can all agree that it's a pretty terrible weapon.

Half of the pyro unlocks were terrible anyways. And the normals are getting worse due to these nerfs. Good thing they're not nerfing the airblast though

the only skill the pyro has got is the airblast it's the best thing that ever happened to her

[CandleJack]

I don't think anybody wants stronger sentries, and teleporters with 3 seconds recharges would break ctf if teleporters in general don't.

And ya I know TF2 has the homewrecker. I think we can all agree that it's a pretty terrible weapon.

Half of the pyro unlocks were terrible anyways. And the normals are getting worse due to these nerfs. Good thing they're not nerfing the airblast though

the only skill the pyro has got is the airblast it's the best thing that ever happened to her

Pyro is GLaDOS!

About metal count, bringing all the TL;DRed points together, we get:

~ The base nbs deduction should be half that of metal deduction without considering anything else first.
+ Respawn cabinets are closer in GG2, making it easier to refil nbs. Thus, the amount of nbs needed to build should be more.
+ There is an auto regeneration rate for nbs, but not for metal. Thus the amount of nbs needed to build should be more.
- There will be more buildings to build other than the autogun now. Thus, the amount of nbs needed to build should be less.
- There are no nbs spawns anywhere other than the resupply area. Thus, the amount of nbs needed to build should be less.

Thus I propose we have
90/100 nbs for Autogun.
65/100 nbs for Provisioner.
80/100 nbs for Transporter.

Compared to the
130/200 metal for Sentry.
100/200 metal for Dispenser.
125/200 metal for Teleporter.

I'm good with these values

[Orangestar]

About metal count, bringing all the TL;DRed points together, we get:

~ The base nbs deduction should be half that of metal deduction without considering anything else first.
+ Respawn cabinets are closer in GG2, making it easier to refil nbs. Thus, the amount of nbs needed to build should be more.
+ There is an auto regeneration rate for nbs, but not for metal. Thus the amount of nbs needed to build should be more.
- There will be more buildings to build other than the autogun now. Thus, the amount of nbs needed to build should be less.
- There are no nbs spawns anywhere other than the resupply area. Thus, the amount of nbs needed to build should be less.

Thus I propose we have
90/100 nbs for Autogun.
65/100 nbs for Provisioner.
80/100 nbs for Transporter.

Compared to the
130/200 metal for Sentry.
100/200 metal for Dispenser.
125/200 metal for Teleporter.

I'm good with these values

[RebelINS]

Um I don't see the need for transporters because maps are pretty small. Especially since some of the larger maps will be getting forward spawns in the next version.

[CandleJack]

Um I don't see the need for transporters because maps are pretty small. Especially since some of the larger maps will be getting forward spawns in the next version.

That's interesting...

[Dihydrogen Monoxide]

Autogun
Level 1 - Bulletgin / 5 or less damage per shot Autogun. (75 or less hp)
Level 2 - Current Autogun. (100hp) Costs 190 nbs altogether.
Level 3 - Give it a little buff, say 10 instead of 8 damage per shot or an ability to shoot up. (more or less 125 hp) Costs 290 nbs altogether.

I don't think anybody wants stronger sentries

If we don't make the sentry stronger, I think we can be satisfied with allowing it to shoot up. Hell, even a terrible player like myself can take down autoguns as a Healer by jumping on top of it and needling down. The fact that a HEALER can take down an AUTOGUN within the time space of say ~7 seconds proves we really need shooting up.

[a/d]

This will probably be implemented in whatever update introduces a limited ammo pool and picking up dropped weapons for ammo.

[Solor Vir]

Hopefully, sooner.  Right now the engineer has been put down to a scoot without super run powers.  The sentry right now is just a deterrance to anyone, it's not a "Don't go this way, or die." it's a "Well, you can try to go this way and most likely survive, but that depends on if you know how to jump on my only forward facing autogin with considerably lower dps than you."

The engineers autogun is suppose to be a FUCKING POWER HOUSE.  In TF2 the autogun is in the top tier for DPS, just purely stat based.  Now look at GG2.

Our sentry is a bastard hybrid between the wranglers turret, and a lvl 1 sentry, with nerfs.  I'm not trying to say this or that, but isn't it mildly obvious?  The argument plays itself out.  We have a class that's main abillity IS making sentries because as a class itself, it's very AVERAGE.

The scoot has double jump and mobility.
The pyro has afterburner and forced deterrence.
The soldier has rocketspam and devestating close range dps.
The healer has self-healing + needle heal.
The demoman has arc abilities in 2D.  Enough said for that buff.
The heavy has the ability to jump and produce a wall of bullets.
The spy has passive invisibility and can sprite clip so you don't know he's even there.
The sniper has infinite ammo laser spam with the ability to make the shots more accurate and deadlier.

The engineer has a average run speed with the ability to make an auto-building sentry.

The top group has their good qualities, the bottom has his ONLY quality.
---
I realize the loss of one dimension is something that plays a factor, but you guys keep hating on the engineer's sentry.   But honestly, what are you guys getting upset over?  It's an easily taken care of NUISSANCE.  It isn't deadly except to those "Player" Pyro's that just (D+M1) and happen to be walking towards it.

</end rant>

[trog]

The sentry right now is pretty much the GG2 equivalent of the combat sentry, except a bit more durable. I don't think a dps buff is necessary, but allowing it to aim up would make it much better at countering scouts.

[Solor Vir]

The sentry right now is pretty much the GG2 equivalent of the combat sentry, except a bit more durable. I don't think a dps buff is necessary, but allowing it to aim up would make it much better at countering scouts.

That's what I meant.  I have the wrangler on my brain because I just unlocked it.

It needs somewhat of a knockback as well, i'm not talking lvl2/3 sentry "OMG I'M FLYING" buff, but something that will make it worth going "Hey everyone, look, sentry.  Let's work together."

[trog]

Well seeing as most maps only have 1 or 2 alternate routes, knockback plus the ability to aim up would pretty much shut down the entire route, leaving only scout/rj routes to the intel.

[Solor Vir]

Well seeing as most maps only have 1 or 2 alternate routes, knockback plus the ability to aim up would pretty much shut down the entire route, leaving only scout/rj routes to the intel.

That's the point though, it has limited range and limited abilities.  It would still have a lock on time so you could abuse going in/out of it's range.

why not introduce lock-on time?

[trog]

It already has turn time, I guess you could increase that.

Also increasing the no build zone between sentries. What would be a good range for that?