Super Smash Brothers {Now with more complaining about yoga pants}

[RebelINS]

Capcom is relevant because you mentioned 'traditional fighters'. If you want to make a better example then change your analogy.

And how does it exactly ruin the game? I know about the NSMB2 dlc, but they've explicitly said that it will not be disk locked or held back. Now since those two main concerns are cleared up, what makes you think that they would let a co-developer (not even a publisher) make DLCs to fuck up a game? Please think these details through before posting. It's basic connect the dots if you do some research.

[Meower]

Chocolate milk is better than milk + Nesquick. Especially when you have to wait for the Nesquick to the point that the milk gets warm.

But I am omnivore and oh is my avatar hanako

[Yuko]

Capcom is relevant because you mentioned 'traditional fighters'. If you want to make a better example then change your analogy.

The only time Capcom was brought up in these arguments was when you gave the track record for their nontraditional games. If you had brought up some of the older Capcom fighters then it might be relevant.

And how does it exactly ruin the game? I know about the NSMB2 dlc, but they've explicitly said that it will not be disk locked or held back. Now since those two main concerns are cleared up, what makes you think that they would let a co-developer (not even a publisher) make DLCs to fuck up a game? Please think these details through before posting. It's basic connect the dots if you do some research.

My concerns are not that it will be disk-locked or held back. My concern is that DLC is DLC, it's unnecessary and it's a lazy form of fixing mistakes. Perfection is impossible, so updating is nice. But the moment you have to pay more than what was on the price tag when you bought the game is the moment the game goes to shit. People shouldn't have to pay for a company's mistakes.

Also, mega contradiction: you ask why Nintendo would let Namco run the show and make DLC, but you say that one of the reasons why you're enthusiastic about Namco's participation is because they'll be releasing content in the long run like they've done with Tekken. Mind clearing this up?

[Starky]

My concerns are not that it will be disk-locked or held back. My concern is that DLC is DLC, it's unnecessary and it's a lazy form of fixing mistakes. Perfection is impossible, so updating is nice. But the moment you have to pay more than what was on the price tag when you bought the game is the moment the game goes to shit. People shouldn't have to pay for a company's mistakes.

Wait you mean like paying for a bugfixes or a balance tweaks.

I don't know of any game that does that.

[RebelINS]

>Street Fighter 4 isn't a traditional fighter yet Smash Bros is


I don't think you know what a traditional fighter is. A traditional fighter is simply 1 on 1 combat with health bars, and various attacks with different properties to deplete those life bars. It has absolutely nothing to do with distribution methods or how modern/old a game is. Games like Smash Brothers are nontraditional because they have nontraditional methods of dealing damage and attaining victory.

Also, mega contradiction: you ask why Nintendo would let Namco run the show and make DLC, but you say that one of the reasons why you're enthusiastic about Namco's participation is because they'll be releasing content in the long run like they've done with Tekken. Mind clearing this up?

Read my post again, because that's not what I said at all. I said that I'm glad that they're working closely together on the design-front to create better game mechanics.

You probably read this part wrong:

Their designers actually support the game post-launch, and work specifically towards making their games viable for a long time in terms of depth of gameplay. Soul Calibur 5 and Tekken 6/Tekken Tag Tournament 2 are good examples of them following up on fan feedback to create a better game.

What I meant was that they were following up on fan feedback from Soul Calibur 4 and Tekken 5/6 respectively to make Soul Calibur 5 and TTT2 better and more balanced straight from launch. I didn't imply that DLC would be a factor in this.

^^^ What Starky said pretty much. Fighters these days benefit a lot from being able to distribute free patches and updates, such as in Skullgirls, SF3: 3S Online Edition, and Mortal Kombat.

[Yuko]

I'm looking at traditional from an economic standpoint, which means no DLC/patches.

Thank you for clearing that up. But my fear still stands that DLC is going to come into play. I understand the benefits of patches, but when you're forced to pay, that completely nullifies any of the benefits. I don't support games that do this.

My opinion on the game will probably change in the future. For now, I'm not hyped in the slightest in fear of what Namco might do. The fact that I also dislike most of the Tekken games has an effect too.

[Starky]

But my fear still stands that DLC is going to come into play. I understand the benefits of patches, but when you're forced to pay, that completely nullifies any of the benefits. I don't support games that do this.

I know there may be some BS downloadable content practices out there, but I have never heard of a game where you have to pay for patches in the sense of balance tweaks and bug fixes. If it dose exist, I don't think it's nearly a common enough practice to worry about.

[RebelINS]

Patches are only a bad thing if you consider the admission of a fault on the developer's part to be a weakness.

I honestly think that is a strength. Being humble enough to listen to the fans' feedback, and offer it as a free patch means that they genuinely care about the consumer's experience with the game even after they purchase it.

[Smokey Joe]

You know what I think?

I think everyone in here should watch this video. All of it. Then watch a bunch of other random Melee and Brawl tourney videos or whatever. It made me realize something; maybe you will too.

Apex 2012 - SSB64 Isai(p1) + Nintendude1189(p3) vs SuPeRbOoMfAn(p2) + JaimeHR(p4) 2v2 WF

What is this? High level play, of course. You might not call this the best SSB game, and these certainly aren't the best characters in the game.

What this is though, is SBB being playing to its fullest. There is lots of depth to this match; how the teammates cooperate with each other, how a character tries to control area, what a player will do to rack combos... And the best part is that this is only one of several other ways to possibly play this game.

You may prefer Brawl or Melee; either you'll dabble around with your friends using items and Stamina mode, or you'll be practicing with some tourney buddies so that you can win the big tournament. You can be using the best or worst character, the one with the most projectiles or the one with the fastest speed. It could be a duel or a free for all; you might be playing single player! And you know what? All of it's fun.

No, Super Smash Bros. is not a traditional fighter; it is something much more expansive. It is a mixture of fighting prowess and territory dominance; it can be played slow and strategically, and it can be played so fast that the button presses are too hard to track; it can be played calm and calculated in a competitive environment, or it can be played mindlessly and carefree in a hectic casual environment; it can be a test of teamwork and synergy, a duel to see who is the better man, or an all-out-brawl where anything goes. You can play characters because you like that series they were in; or you can play one because you want to take advantage of his playstyle. The stage? Flat and plain, uneven and varied, random and chaotic; it's all there.

That is Super Smash Brothers.

As far as whatever changes HAL or Namco-Bandai plan on doing to this game -- anything that contributes to the flexibility that made SSB great to begin with (through balance, customization, level/character variety) is alright with me. Balance encourages variety; variety is SSB's spirit.

[Meower]

such as in Skullgirls

wait how many patches are we talking about, I've been playing Scott Pilgame so much I forgot about having SG

[RedO]

and these certainly aren't the best characters in the game.

One of the characters being played is Luigi
You need to be stabbed in the groin for that comment

[RebelINS]

mike z was a guest on the last ask dr. Sub zero show with a brand new never before seen update. Some pretty huge training mode buffs, which makes it the best training mode in the genre. You'll have to check the archives. I don't know about any character changes.

And yeah smash 64 is insanely fun because of the sheer combo nature of the game. I'd love if the devs looked at it for inspiration for the offensive parts of the game (higher hitstun and blockstun). Brawl is way too zoning based for my preferences because of the lack of any meaningful stun (other than bullshit chain grab, grab release and falco lasers lolol). That tends to make any combos uncreative.

[Intel Guard]

this debate brought to you by snk-playmore fans, who always win in the end

[Smokey Joe]

and these certainly aren't the best characters in the game.

One of the characters being played is Luigi
You need to be stabbed in the groin for that comment

Two of them.

I'm just judging based on the fact that none of them are Fox or Pikachu.

[AcidLead]

And yeah smash 64 is insanely fun because of the sheer combo nature of the game. I'd love if the devs looked at it for inspiration for the offensive parts of the game (higher hitstun and blockstun). Brawl is way too zoning based for my preferences because of the lack of any meaningful stun (other than bullshit chain grab, grab release and falco lasers lolol). That tends to make any combos uncreative.

actually, it feels like this trend has continued on at a fairly linear rate

ssb64 = holy shit characters can't do jack if they get hit
ssbm = wow high end games get really intense when mere instants decide life and death
ssbb = lol what is getting stunlocked I think I'll just mash buttons and maybe win
???future = two titans locked in an eternal match of beating on each others' faces forever, nobody wins