Muddy's Map Emporium

[Muddywater]

I'm rehosting for you now though 

[AcidLead]

Okay, I get how it works. If no Blues are alive to block the ENTIRE SCREEN (well besides the blue spawn) the game ends.

Pretty nifty. Now if you didn't lag so bad it would be perfect. I could host if it's okay

Edit: Ooh, try to add more loops. Don't make any long dead ends, they should be spy nooks or not at all.

Double Edit: Another thought. Could we get the respawning types to have many ceiling spawns? Not a single place the survivors can camp, but also not some wall the spawners can hide from them in.

[Muddywater]

I'm already planning on making more loops, along with making it bigger. I'm not quite sure what you're saying though for the double edit. Are you saying red needs more spawns?

[AcidLead]

No. Right now, I think it would be nice if Blue had a little advantage of Red not being able to hide in the Red spawn. Could you make little nooks in the ceiling from which they spawn at random? That way, they can't hide in spawn but Blue can't camp them everywhere. Blu has the advantage of initial cohesion, but Red can spawn forever. Obviously spawn gates would be needed to hold in the Reds during setup.

Obviously difficult to do at the current size, well after about 6v6 it would get a bit hard to stop possible all-camping, but still.

[Muddywater]

Explain to me in short, as I'm quite confused. You're saying that red should have a random spawn somewhere behind the front?

[sniper NO SNIPING]

He's saying that Reds should spawn up in the air, with no spawn doors, because they currently can turtle in the spawn.

[Muddywater]

Well, if they're useless in spawn, they're likely useless in battle. Odds of that one person being the one spawning isn't very likely anyway, without creating too many random spawns.

Or do you mean they're stuck in the floor 

[sniper NO SNIPING]

What?

Hold on, I'm drawing up an explanation. With pictures!

[Muddywater]

I'm rather confused 

I'm anxious to find out.

[sniper NO SNIPING]

This is the way it currently is. He is saying that red is overpowered since they run back and forth to the medcab and are generally unfairly protected.



This is the suggested fix. Red spawns and immediately drops through the setup gate into the action. Red now is at a disadvantage, since they have no time to get an uber in the spawn.

Personally, I think its a good idea, but put some obstacles under the red spawn point so it's a little more balanced.

Upon a closer reading, you were right with your first guess. So he wants a bunch of little nooks in the ceiling like this one, scattered throughout the map.

I like this way better, though.

[Muddywater]

Dear god, if blue wanted to win then they could just spawn camp before red can build any type of offense up. I personally don't like the idea of it though, after all the goal of the map is to survive long enough so you can keep red from capping. Plus, different classes come in handy for different situations. For instance, if I was a medic, and I got the random spawn, I'm useless. All classes other then spy would get immediately noticed and (implying blue has a good camping spot) They just have someone spycheck that area to make sure no one's there.

As for scattered nooks, you won't be able to get much work done alone against most of blue team. You could likely suicide pyro and get something done, though.

In short, you won't likely get much work done by yourself with this setting of defense highly in favor of the blue team.

But you will be able to get behind them, in a sense, in a2. I'm planning on making the holdout room at the entrance lead upward, enough so you can corner them if they're in there, but if they're farther back you'll still be behind.

Also, I'm planning on having a medkit in a winding hole that goes back to start from the top. This will heal you, but at the cost of putting you in front of their spawn and having to climb back up. This is a rather iffy idea for me though.

[sniper NO SNIPING]

Well, in all the matches we played, red won every time, except when it was 2v2. Granted, the players were not the average player base, but I think removing the protection of the spawn doors is not a bad idea. Maybe put some platforms under the spawns, to act as makeshift staging grounds, but don't put any protection around them.

[Muddywater]

Well, the blue teams rarely abused camping, getting themselves killed. That, and the apparent lag.

The only thing I can think of to make it balanced yet easy is to rid of the top entrance, since spies can spam from it. As of now though they're already at a disadvantage, and since it's a1 I'll just go according to plan and deal with it if it's too big a problem.

[AcidLead]

I like this way better, though.

Dear god, if blue wanted to win then they could just spawn camp before red can build any type of offense up.

This is what I foresaw here.

As for scattered nooks, you won't be able to get much work done alone against most of blue team. You could likely suicide pyro and get something done, though.

If you made enough spots and they were well spaced enough with decent enough nearby cover, I could see it working. Besides, if a red dies, fine. They DO get the advantage of being able to die and respawn.

But if you don't like it, fine, it is your map. I'll just make an edit of the map my way, give you the original credit, and nobody will give a shit

[Muddywater]

Some changes to the wallmask for a2, it'll have more room upwards in the future.

This just put in more dead ends, that still allow escape. Also some loop around paths.

I've also started thinking about the changes necessary to make the gamemode balanced. Here's my ideas for changes so far:

RED team-
Only allowed classes are Runner, Firebug, and infiltrator.
All red classes have a regeneration speed of 3 hp per second.

BLU team-
Only classes allowed are Rocketman, detonator, Firebug, Healer, overweight, Rifleman, and constructor.
Rocketman has a clip of 6.
Detonator can lay x2 stickies.
Overweight's manvich heals 100 hp instead of 50.
Constructor's autogun loses 5 hp per second, and his metal regeneration is 30% slower.
All blu classes can taunt to heal 5 hp.

I'm thinking of giving each of the red team's classes special abilities, and giving them some nerfs. Not sure yet, though

What do you guys think of everything at the moment?


Edit:
Runners can make it out of blu spawn right now, so it couldn't be a2 anyway. Also, another idea. Blu will be able to taunt and heal 5 hp.

Thoughts?